Author Topic: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game  (Read 145582 times)

Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #125 on: March 19, 2014, 09:46:01 PM »
Even just viewing the part of LinkedIn that is visible without logging in shows him working other projects for another developer in 2010-2011.  There is also more than one person on the report.

Would like to see full transcript and slidepack.

Edit - GDC homepage
Quote
...His major game credits include Halo: Reach, Destroy All Humans! and Destroy All Humans! 2, The Saboteur, Crimson Alliance and Kinect Rush: A Disney-Pixar Adventure. In 2009, he was named to "The Gamasutra 20: Top Game Writers." ...

So he might not be MCA but that doesn't mean much.  He has a presence in the industry doing work on writing.  Especially working on games in genres that do in fact still rely on a strict use of the three act structure.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:51:01 PM by Grefter »
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AndrewRogue

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #126 on: March 20, 2014, 12:27:58 AM »
The general issue to me is that people, in general, still approach game writing from the point of view that it is like writing for any other medium, which is a very ineffective way of approaching it. You CAN make it work, but, in a lot of cases, it is going to be suboptimal.

A simple starting place is to dismiss some of the larger issues out the door based on the playerbase (straight 3-act structure being incredibly useless given the length and breakdown of many modern games, character-centric work being more memorable/sticking better, pacing differently and expending differently based on the fact that many games aren't going to be completed, etc). Ultimately, for mainstream gaming, the big problem really is time and the way it is spent in games, as well as you pace it around the game chunk of the game.

So, ultimately, while it isn't OMG genius insight or anything, but it is a decent baseline talking point for really getting at the point that game writing =/= book/TV/film writing.

Captain K.

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #127 on: March 21, 2014, 03:26:32 AM »
In lighter news, Fred Phelps is dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/20/us/westboro-church-founder-dead/

Sadly they won't be holding a funeral for us to protest at.

NotMiki

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #128 on: March 21, 2014, 04:57:28 AM »
What's there to protest?

I mean, I learned in second grade that the best way to deal with bullies is to not give them any attention.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 05:05:13 AM by NotMiki »
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
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Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #129 on: March 21, 2014, 05:53:17 AM »
That he isn't getting a funeral pyre I guess?
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NotMiki

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #130 on: March 21, 2014, 06:02:48 AM »
What has he ever done to deserve the attention?  How has he contributed to the world?  The only fitting eulogy for his contribution to humanity is deafening silence.  To the dustbin of history with him, I say.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
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SnowFire

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #131 on: March 21, 2014, 11:41:46 PM »
Belated, Re video game characters: It's both semi-obvious and misleading.  To quote Marshall McLuhan (+1 intelligentsia points), the medium is the message, form follows function, all that good stuff.   Basically, your plot should work *with* your game and make sense for it.

  • If you have a puzzle game or "arcade game" or the like, plot is totally optional, and if you have it, it shouldn't get in the way.  (e.g. Tetris (no plot), Arkanoid (you are told you defeated the evil alien at the end))
  • If you have a shortish "continuous" game (<2 hours to complete) with a clearly identifiable "protagonist" but where you don't want to disrupt the flow with towns or the like, you should make the character as likable / distinctive as possible, but then give them a simple quest - stop the evil overlord, rescue the princess, defeat the alien invasion, etc.  Keep your one plot twist toward the end.  (e.g. Super Mario Bros., Castlevania I or III)
  • If your game has any length (e.g. 5 hours+), then a plot helps, even if it's just an excuse for something for the characters to interact with.  It's a reason to go forward and load the game up again!  Even stuff like action games is helped here - you can't just tell someone "be crazy and distinctive", you have to give them something to do, e.g. Devil May Cry or God of War, then throw in some melodramatic plot twists.  It doesn't have to be a "good" plot but it should ideally be a compelling plot - think old 1930s serials that always ended with Our Hero in some dire trouble, and you need to tune in next week to see how they got out of it.
  • If your game comes in small "chunks" but is supposed to be played for a long time, then this is what the GDC guy is talking about.  This is stuff like fighting games and MOBAs - what you want are good characters, and the plot should be an excuse for all these characters to be at the breaking point and want to fight each other, but you can never move past that.  Which of course ruins the ability to write a "good" three-act plot when you are eternally stuck at the end of Act I.  That's because Act II & Act III are playing the game.  Guile's finally going to have it out with M. Bison, and that's the fight, and when we're done, we're going back to start of Act II, and they're going to have their fated confrontation all over again.  Same with LoL Act II and III are written by the characters themselves, as you find out if Ashe or Sejuani or Lissandra will rule the Frejlord or whatever, and the answer is if you won the game at the end.  They gave up their "Journal of Justice" which attempted to write a coherent world plot because it was fruitless and dumb.  The whole point of a meaningful plot is one that changes things - conflicts get resolved and new ones are created.  But they can't do that!  Imagine Capcom saying "Sorry, Ryu has retired from fighting" or actually letting Bison die.  Or even crazier, Riot changing a League of Legends character they've sold to people on one premise.  "Sorry, Jinx, after realizing the high cost of her actions, has reformed and become a straight-laced good girl."  No!  No character development allowed!  Or for a stranger example,  Blizzard RTSes hack the system a bit - they can write a plot for their various sentient characters, because they don't matter in-game too much.  However, WarCraft / StarCraft plot will never see a peace between the various "races" nor any unification between them, because there always needs to be an excuse for TvT / TvZ / TvP / etc. in the actual game.  So that kind of plot development arc is basically closed off.

Anyway, just because Riot is entirely correct about their scenario - their writer's job is to come up with a good explanation for why any character would be willing to fight it out, put some stakes on the line for the fight, and then stop there - doesn't mean that plots are useless.  They're just useless in games that take 2-30 minutes then restart.  And even then, exceptions abound - Ninja Gaiden stuck a hammy plot into Category 2 Mario-type games, and for category 4 games, BlazBlue attempted to have a plot in its first game, although the later games clearly suffer from the issue of "we really don't want to let characters die or change much."

NotMiki

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #132 on: March 22, 2014, 04:25:10 PM »
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/westboro-baptist-church-lorde-concert-sorry-for-your-loss

So this is how one group actually DID respond to Fred Phelps' death.  I am not sure whether they are the nicest people on the planet or they are staging the first ironic funeral protest in human history.  Either way, I am humbled.
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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #133 on: March 22, 2014, 07:12:02 PM »
"Kill them with Kindness."

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

something something high road

NotMiki

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #134 on: March 22, 2014, 08:26:12 PM »
<Makkotah> Sincerity gives me agita.
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Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #136 on: March 23, 2014, 03:06:31 AM »
I wish they'd just do full recordings/transcriptions with the slides.

But they do full recordings.  The slides are just meant to be a preview to get you to buy GDC Vault access.

Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #137 on: March 24, 2014, 12:32:17 AM »
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/23/goggle_flu_foo_fubar/

Tone of article is a bit off, but a decent  formal analysis of results that show "Google bubble" trend that people note.
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Captain K.

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #138 on: March 28, 2014, 04:42:09 AM »
There's a new Wolfenstein game coming out with the premise that the Nazis won World War II.  It takes place in 1960.  So they actually created a bunch of 60s-style pop music as if the Germans were in charge.

http://www.neumondrecordings.com

NotMiki

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #139 on: March 28, 2014, 06:45:46 PM »
That is brilliant/horrifying.
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SnowFire

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #140 on: March 30, 2014, 09:35:05 AM »
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3546224&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Not one of the big LP readers here, but figured I'd mention this due to all the SRPG fans here - the Rondo of Swords LP on SA finally finished up and will eventually head to the archives.  Check it out now before it's too late, the forums are even free right now if you're not a member.  (Been reading this LP off and on since January 2013, finally I'm halfway through the thread & finished the route B ending).  Rondo of Swords is an *awful* game but it's awful in the best way: magnificent ambition and courage to try out new & different ideas, with various key mechanics designed by marmots and key enemy threat data unclear without investigation in a game with nasty penalties for character death.  Fear its terrible power.  In other words, just about the perfect kind of game to read an LP of rather than play.  The runner has done various busted things only someone who played the game repeatedly would know that are entirely obtuse (know that certain characters are secretly useless for non-obvious reasons, know certain characters should keep their level low before a promotion which increases stat growth, know what skills to save precious skill points for, know which accessories are useful and which are useless in a game with limited money / shopping, win rigged/optional fights to get special items), and STILL wipes a decent amount.  All the hidden information makes RoS a brutally challenging SRPG ("I forgot to check how much MP the enemy spell took after inciting him to cast it once, so I underestimated their spell range by 1, then got pinpoint nuked"), but at least brutally challenging in a more interesting way than usual since "grind moar" isn't really a good option.

The plot is also more interesting than I gave it credit for from playing the first ~3 stages.  I think the LPer overhypes / reads into a few parts as having more subtext than is really there, but there clearly exist some solidly done plot points & character arcs.  Moreover, while the plot / characters are extremely anime in parts (14-year old girl pope who shoots lasers and wants to get married), somehow the tone remains "mature" on a number of the arcs anyway, which is goddamn amazing.  e.g. compare with Wild Arms XF - Our Hero in RoS is a body double of the dead Prince, but he does not have amazing powers (aside from having the Prince's cool sword), and he is not secretly the Prince anyway.  And the dead Prince really is dead.  This makes the position for our little imposter so much more interesting than usual, and the game does some cool things with it.  I also rather like one of the alternate ending options.  Neat stuff, anyways.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #141 on: March 30, 2014, 11:22:45 PM »
Quote
e.g. compare with Wild Arms XF - Our Hero in RoS is a body double of the dead Prince, but he does not have amazing powers (aside from having the Prince's cool sword), and he is not secretly the Prince anyway.  And the dead Prince really is dead.  This makes the position for our little imposter so much more interesting than usual

To be perfectly honest, none of these sound like they'll make the situation more interesting (or are very much not played straight in XF, namely the bit about the "amazing powers" and the biological identies of Clarissa/Alexia). Heck, just flipping things from "our heroine" to "our hero" makes the whole story notably more generic, within the JRPG prism.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #142 on: March 31, 2014, 12:39:32 AM »
I started reading it.  It is worth reading just for the weird combat system and the intricacies that it introduces.
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The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #143 on: March 31, 2014, 02:47:44 AM »
Quote
e.g. compare with Wild Arms XF - Our Hero in RoS is a body double of the dead Prince, but he does not have amazing powers (aside from having the Prince's cool sword), and he is not secretly the Prince anyway.  And the dead Prince really is dead.  This makes the position for our little imposter so much more interesting than usual

To be perfectly honest, none of these sound like they'll make the situation more interesting (or are very much not played straight in XF, namely the bit about the "amazing powers" and the biological identies of Clarissa/Alexia). Heck, just flipping things from "our heroine" to "our hero" makes the whole story notably more generic, within the JRPG prism.

I dunno. The gender of Clarissa/Alexia wouldn't have changed anything in terms of that reveal. The gender of the main character doesn't seem to mean as much as it used to in terms of making shit seem less generic. Both genders have their tropes as mains. It's really HOW they do it now other than "Hey, the main character lacks a Y chromosome!"

Grefter

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #144 on: March 31, 2014, 02:51:01 AM »
So we are in agreement that they would be much better if the big breakdown moment was when the love interest exclaims "The Princess isn't the real daughter of the king and has an extra X chromosome!!!".

No wonder the main character had a terrible magic stat.
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The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #145 on: March 31, 2014, 03:00:03 AM »
Giving the main character three X chromosomes WOULD be ballsy.  So few games let you play as a person with cognitive disabilities.  Just Fallout for mental retardation and FF8 for autism.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #146 on: March 31, 2014, 04:33:48 AM »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #147 on: March 31, 2014, 06:06:32 AM »
Counterpoint:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=242010289&searchtext=

Also, I found a Pacific Rim mod in the workshop a while ago and I was all fired up to try it out.  Did a quick start into the information era, built Striker Eureka, and it's the stock Giant Death Robot model.  What in the literal fuck.  What kind of asshole uploads a mod like that without the custom unit model?

SnowFire

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #148 on: March 31, 2014, 12:00:08 PM »
DHE: Pretty interesting.  You're not getting any social policies anyway, so I guess Toronto ICSes everywhere?  But the giant upkeep on roads/railroads means that they desperately want to use Harbors instead, so uh expand all over the Great Lakes, I guess.  Also only go to war once since I imagine the war music is pretty awesome the first time and would cause you to nuke your own cities the 16th time.

Also, re RoS, you really think the gender makes that big a deal?  I'll grant the point on the main character in general trending male, but "mysterious royal identity surprise" I usually associate with princesses more than princes (e.g. Marle, Garnet, Sheik, Calista, and a half-dozen others). 

As for making the situation more interesting - dunno, it just does to me at least.  To put things another way, stories along the lines of "Hero X saved the world, and surprise Hero X is also the Rightful King" at the end are exceedingly common, as are "We know they're the Rightful King, but they're banished or something, go save the world, then resume being Rightful King."  Which is not to say this trope is bad (Aragorn is p. awesome), but it does get used a ton, and mixing things up where this is explicitly *not* the "real" king is a variant that has plenty of dramatic potential too.  If nothing else, I kind of like introducing some kind of special holy bloodline (normally a ticket for "you are a destined hero"), and then having the main character (presumably?) not share it, at least not directly.  To compare to the most generic SRPG out there - imagine if Marth dies in the prologue to FE1/FESD, and the entire rest of the game is some blue-haired dude (with no/less holy blood?) going around with Elice on the good and noble quest to save Altea, saying "check out this Falchion, clearly I must be Marth, please ignore the fact it's not working as well as it should."  That already sounds more interesting to me!  (If nothing else, the relationship between "Marth" and Elice would be good fodder for some awkwardness, and so it is in RoS between "Serdic" and Marie.)

It's also a slight difference in tone.  I don't want to imply that RoS is grimdark, because it's not (see extreme anime notes above), but since it was apparently called "Rondo of Deception" in Japanese, it does the "imposter" plot point seriously at least, as opposed to playing it for 12th Night-esque comedy / hijinks.  As in...  in WAXF, Clarissa is basically a standard JRPG main who is very honest, and apparently was never confronted or never prepared for being challenged as a liar (which she is!), and gets all clammed up vs. Rupert at the end of Chapter 2 and runs away making a big scene.  "Serdic" reacts more like how I'd expect for someone who took their role as fake-Prince seriously and wouldn't want to hurt their own cause by being unprepared for similar challenges.  "The bad guys say you're a fake."  "That's silly.  Who's got the sword?  Who was crowned by the Pope?  I'm the Divine Emperor, next issue."  Yup, that sounds right to me.  (To be sure, XF's plot point is also fine, but I wish they'd made it more narratively clear that this was a character flaw of Clarissa's, and that she's imperiled everyone by not being a good liar.)

On a similar note to the above, there's a story branch, and the "darker" branch does not involve Serdic going around cackling "Mwahha, since I have done one conventionally 'bad' thing I have become a monster."  He feels terrible about it, as you might expect!  Won't say more than that though, just kinda nice due to being used to the Bioware-style "saint vs. psychotic mass murderer" story pathsplits.

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Re: 2014 Miscellaneous Links You Won't Believe
« Reply #149 on: March 31, 2014, 05:04:11 PM »
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-rethinks-its-bid-to-appeal-to-the-mass-market-after-bravely-default-success/1100-6418665/

"“If you focus too much on the global aspect, you might lose sight of who you’re actually making the game for,” says Square Enix president."

You.  Don't.  Fucking.  Say.

(I dunno if they have the people to pull this off in-house, we'll see what FFXV is like, but I'm also reading this as "let folks like the Eidos studios and so on do their own thing" so it's almost certainly going to be all to the good.)
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