Author Topic: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one  (Read 46770 times)

Captain K

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2016, 12:04:59 AM »
I think you can call internet users a demographic...

Problem with "The Internet" is that, despite being very loud and excitable, The Internet historically does not vote.  Either at polling places or with their wallets.  See the campaigns of Ron Paul, Snakes on a Plane movie, etc. etc.

You can look at the "All" category of Reddit right now and you will see dozens of topics about Bernie Sanders, maybe a few about Trump, nothing about the other candidates.  But does that mean anything?  Probably not.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2016, 05:56:20 AM »
I think over time, as generations for whom the internet is either normalized or for whom the internet is simply an additional brainspace for their day to day lives come of age, that will change.  And overall I think the Sanders campaign succeeding as much as it has is due in part to that generation gap having a meaningful fraction of the voting populace.  As I said earlier in the topic, I think come 2024 a candidate running on a leftie platform like Sanders would stand a serious chance of winning.

So in a pollster-shattering outcome, Sanders in fact won today in Michigan.  Double plus points to Dunie for being dead on in a decisive way too: while Clinton crushed Sanders among black voters, it was around a 70-30 split.  Super Tuesday's southern primaries meanwhile had the SMALLEST margin as a 85-15 split among black voters, and in one state he managed just 6 percent among black voters.  There are indeed pretty decisive differences here, and states like Illinois or Ohio will probably reflect these numbers more than their southern counterparts.
Of course the Democrats also polled today in Mississippi and Clinton crushed him like 85-15 or some shit.  I think despite Michigan being worth a lot more delegates Clinton actually won more today overall, although Mississippi is basically the last southern state to vote so it's not implausible Sanders could close the gap some.  On the other hand he's so far behind with just under half of states having voted that, as opined last week, it's more or less a moot point.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2016, 07:32:40 AM »
So as promised, ponderings.

So pollsters and other such folks tend to regard the Democrats as a coalition of three broad demographic groups.  Republicans meanwhile tend to be organized into four broad ideological camps.

1) 'Establishment Republicans'- Sorry, I don't have a pithy phrase for this one.  Center-Right.  Generally take the middle road of the three below and temper them into something fit for human consumption.  Ish.

2) Libertarians- Don't strictly fall on the usual left-right spectrum, but tend to vote Right to Center-Right.  Mostly in favor of small government and deregulation in broad strokes.  Libertarians have their own party, technically, but as a matter of pragmatism most actually just vote Republican, trading off supporting the odd right-wing social issue (in strictest terms an actual Libertarian has no business supporting, say, abortion bans, in practice the odd member of the Libertarian party that hits congress will and the ones that just vote republican do so as well) for support of more traditional Republicans backing their more radical deregulation schemes.

3) Evangelicals- Hard-Right to Right.  People that use the bible as a textbook.  Broadly generate most Republican stances on social issues, or rather most party lines on the matter are designed to placate them since a quarter of the coalition feels uncomfortable (though not militant) with liberal stances on those matters and another quarter are here tactically ANYWAY.

4) Tea Partiers-  Here-there-be-dragons to hard-right.  These are your terrifying racists, MRAs, and other people one hissy fit away from bunkering down in a trailer with enough small arms to be their own police force.

The ongoing Republican race is utterly fascinating in a slightly terrifying way.  All the remaining candidates are basically bad (as they have to be, when you have Tea Partiers to court sane people jump ship) so nobody wants to knuckle down and consolidate the field.  Unlike the Democrats, we can't just poll people to find out how old they are and their melanin tone, so there's not really math.  But my best guess?
Trump is sweeping through group 4, with a sliver of groups 3 and 2 (the latter, I strongly suspect, are there because they want Trump to demonstrate the system is broken and leave them better able to sweep away the government afterwards).
Cruz is picking up the lion's share of group 3 and most of the rest of group 2.
Leaving Rubio and Kaish to fight over group 1 and stragglers from the others that think Cruz is too punchable.

And nobody seems to want to back down.  Probably because Cruz's sheer punchability is so high.  Also because he's a sociopath's sociopath, lacking not only the capacity for empathy but a willingness to DISGUISE his abject contempt for the rest of humanity.

But he's still better than Donald "Is Running Straight From the Nazi Playbook" Trump.

So at this point everyone seems to seriously be angling for a contested convention.  There's an outside chance Rubio and Kaish drop and Cruz beats Trump head to head, and an even more outside chance Trump takes a clear majority due to snagging juuuust enough winner-take-all states, but it's looking doubtful.

So the thing is, the Republican coalition probably doesn't survive a contested convention.
There's a very, very real possibility that if Trump is blocked due to party shenanigans, he just runs on his own and takes about a third of the base with him.  Even if he doesn't, the crazy runs deep and I think they bugger off on their own regardless.
Now, if Trump somehow wrangles the nomination out of that scenario (or wins outright), I also don't think the Republican party survives THAT.  Donald 'Godwin's Law Personified' Trump is a death blow to the remaining shreds of credibility the party has among its more moderate members or the handful of genuine swing/undecided voters out there. 
Trump accounts for about 35% of the Republican base, and while i don't think they'd all leave if shenanigans happen, the bulk do.  Call it 25%.  Now, that amounts to about 10-15% of the total voting base, but that basically puts the Republicans in a place where they can only pull about 35-45% in a general election.

Exceeeeeept.
No small amount of the Democratic base is basically people who saw the Southern Strategy, or Reagan, or more recently the Tea Party and went "Nope."  With many of those elements buggering off, do they go back?
And realistically?  the only thing that brought the modern Democratic coalition together at all was pure "fuck those guys".  There's a pretty huge ideological range there.

Now, this sort of thing doesn't just resolve itself overnight, so there'd be an election cycle or possibly two of basically inertia causing sweeping Democratic victories. 
After that... well, if the center-right splinter of the Republican party woos the more centrist part of the Democratic, you end up with something resembling basic parlimentary distribution: a right-winger group, a centrist coalition, and a gaggle of lefties.  Neat, right?  I mean, lots of people find the whole two party thing offends their sensibilities, I certainly do.  Much more sensible system right?
Yeah.  Except the US system doesn't really support three or more major parties.  There's not proportionate representation here.  Each seat is a discrete election with winner-take-all results.  and over time that sort of system is just going to devolve to two-man races.  One group or another will get fewer and fewer seats as the larger groups consolidate their positions through chicanery until they just lack the capital to compete on even terms in a meaningful number of places.

Still, I think we're definitely in interesting times here.  Probably less interesting than I'm pondering here?  But I think we're on definitely seeing that once-a-generation realignment happening here.  I'm just sorta spitballing how it might take form.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2016, 09:23:08 AM »
While I agree that it's unlikely the US will go the way of three parties, I'd be far more likely to peg that to the culture of the States than the system.  Certainly up here in Canada we've been doing first past the post, winner take all for each riding in a pretty similar fashion to you guys (when it comes to Senate/HoR/Parliament elections, we're pretty similar.  It's President/Prime Minister selection where we differ) and we've had three parties consistently doing well since the 60s.  Heck, for most of my adult life, we've had four-five parties doing respectably on the federal level, with things just recently settling back down to three.  And frankly, it's unlikely that we're about to go to two any time soon.


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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2016, 11:44:37 AM »
On the other hand he's so far behind with just under half of states having voted that, as opined last week, it's more or less a moot point.

At the risk of pissing people off because I'm only half paying attention to the thread and kicking up shit that's already been argued to death (sorry about that, Dunie. My bad), is that taking into account that most of Clinton's lead are pledged-but-not-yet-voted superdelegates? Superdelegates that had similarly pledged to Clinton at the start of the 2008 primaries but then changed once Obama started picking up steam, if I'm reading into it right. Discounting those, Clinton's lead is only 200 delegates, with something like 2400 of them unclaimed. I'm pessimistically expecting Clinton to take the nomination anyway but saying Clinton's so far ahead that the primaries may as well be over is just not correct.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2016, 02:59:33 PM »
The thing is that Clinton's 200 delegate lead is probably enough. No democratic primaries are winner-take-all so even if Sanders wins Clinton still gets some delegates, and there are plenty of states that favor her coming up. Sanders still needs to win more stages by huge margins to make up the deficit and it remains to be seen if he can pull that off.

Don't get me wrong, the Michigan win was a huge victory for Sanders, but Clinton is still the odds on favorite.

You're right that superdelegates are unpledged and people shouldn't put them in the Clinton column when doing delegate counts. But they're not going to switch unless Bernie has a clear delegate lead.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2016, 03:08:00 PM »
True, you're right that the lead probably is enough that realistically Hillary will get the nomination, but I take umbrage with saying it's a "moot point" and acting like it's already been decided.

Is a Sanders nomination likely? Nah, probably not. Is it less likely now than it was a month ago? I don't think the answer to that question is yes.

EDIT: Words that change the entire meaning of the sentence.

EDIT2: Words that change the entire meaning of the sentence again. I should stop trying to be rhetorically fancy after popping sleeping meds.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 05:42:37 AM by Makkotah »

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2016, 03:22:53 PM »
Hillary was pretty much always going to be the nominee, but the fact that it's as close as it is just proves that Sanders and his political message resonate with the democratic base, which is something the establishment really, really needs to keep in mind. Pushing Hildawg left was why he entered the race in the first place.

Then again up to Super Tuesday I was convinced Trump would never be the nominee so what do I know?
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2016, 06:26:36 PM »
It's fascinating and a bit humbling that the powers that be simply do not have a good handle on why people vote the way they do.  Sanders' win in Michigan could be an indication of a sea change in the way the Democratic electorate views Sanders.  Or maybe it's just a blip and the expectations of a Clinton landslide were based on bad polling methodology or a wonky sample of voters.
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Captain K

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2016, 06:00:51 AM »
It's fascinating and a bit humbling that the powers that be simply do not have a good handle on why people vote the way they do.

That's been the theme of this year.  Oh Trump is running?  That's amusing.  He's got some support?  Still not electable in any way.  He's winning?  I don't know what's happening anymore.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2016, 06:46:26 AM »
Obligatory reminder that it's possible that Serious Commentators like me were right about everything on Trump having a tough road to the GOP nomination, and that Trump was the luckiest son of a bitch ever.  Hey, even 1% chances happen sometimes, but they were still 1%.  "Bet everything on 00" is still not good advice for the roulette table.

For a less crazy example, I remember standing up for McCain's chances to win the nom in '08, but objectively speaking, his campaign was in *real* trouble at one point, but he had literally everything go right for him with splitting of the vote in his favor, Romney making some tactical errors, etc.  So yeah, weird stuff happens.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2016, 08:37:52 AM »
It's fascinating and a bit humbling that the powers that be simply do not have a good handle on why people vote the way they do.

I definitely say it makes me feel confused and worried more than anything else.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2016, 02:21:27 AM »
I think an underemphasized part of Trump's appeal is his knock on the benefits of free trade and offshoring and such. The GOP has been in favor of big business-supported trade deals, but this is a yuge split with their base. Ditto on foreign policy in general (trump has been openly antagonistic of the military adventurism that is dogma for elites but not so popular with the GOP base).

The GOP is in open revolt territory with Trump and Cruz. I guess when you tell people constantly to freak out because Nobama is going to destroy America they actually get frightened and do what frightened people do. Republican leaders wanted to use feat of Obama as a cudgel and now that cudgel,wielded by Trump or Cruz, is going to beat them senseless, Brooks v Sumner style.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2016, 03:16:49 AM »
Funnily enough, this link crossed my path today:

https://getliberty.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Pat-Caddell-ALG-TPP-Poll-Charts-3-10-16.pdf

Online polling (so I'm assuming self-selection, but it doesn't make it clear), but it shows Republicans having stronger negative feelings about voting for people who push the TPP. It looks like it was a joint project from a right-leaning group and an independent pollster.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2016, 08:29:19 AM »
It's so weird to me to see "trade deals" lump summed together.

Cause like...NAFTA is amazing.  TPP is a deal where everything that helps corporations is binding, and everything that protects workers is non-binding.



Side note, and this is more just thoughts about government policy in general and not so much about this election in particular, but I've been thinking recently about administrative efficiency.

Administrative efficiency is stuff like when Canada went from having a Provincial sales tax and a Federal sales tax collected by a dozen different entities...and decided to collapse this into one collection agency, significantly reducing the administrative costs (and thus effectively increasing tax revenue without actually raising taxes).

Administrative efficiency is ideas like replacing welfare and social security programs with a Basic Income given to everyone (even people who are employed).  Not that the people with jobs need it, but when you don't need the government doing a whole lot of paperwork about whether or not someone qualifies for welfare etc then you end up saving a lot of money anyway.

Looping this back to the election a little bit, and speaking of the two serious candidates (Bernie and Hillary).

I feel like a lot of Bernie's proposals have a fair bit of Administrative efficiency.  His free college plan--you don't need any administration taking fees and collecting all the related paperwork from students.  Comparing to Hillary's plan (which some have argued is actually the more left-wing plan, for what it's worth) there's a lot of administrative overhead, where she needs to account for the income of the student's parents, check if the student is working 10 hours a week to see if they qualify for certain kinds of financial aid, etc.  Similarly, his health care plan "Medicare for all" eliminates Medicaid, veteran's health care, and numberous administrative layers releating to insurance.  Again seems to have some administrative efficiency.

I'm not sure if this applies to other policies of theirs, but I thought it was interesting.   And just from a min-max perspective, low administrative costs seem ideal--put more total money directly back into the system, instead of into gatekeepers of the system.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2016, 09:06:05 AM »
TPP is a deal where everything that helps corporations is binding, and everything that protects workers is non-binding.

TPP parsed as Twitch Plays Pokemon and that made this pretty great.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2016, 09:22:38 PM »
NAFTA may be far more popular in Canada? In the US, it killed 700,000 jobs and it definitely changed Mexico's economic landscape in ways they weren't particularly happy with due to US farmers undercutting local Mexican farmers. It also didn't help our trade balance, which it was supposed to. There's a reason that both Hillary and Obama said they would renegotiate it during the 2008 primary.

Hillary's college plan is more progressive by the technical definition, but you've already hit on the problem: it may cost more to implement due to the costs associated with means testing, in which case the means testing is pointless. That said, I've tried looking it up before and I can't find any cut off points that she's proposing in terms of parental income/assets (I can't even find anything on what they will be looking at, which is a problem itself because there are vehicles that very rich people can use to avoid showing any income on personal income taxes). I have...serious issues with this. Hillary Clinton always says that Donald Trump's kids won't get anything, but she's picked the far end of hyperbole. Where is the exact line where people wouldn't get any benefit from her plan? I suspect it must be below a self proclaimed $10 billion (or whatever) in worth, but that's the only barometer she's given us (because almost no literature she put out even mentions this aspect).

And that brings us to the problem where Hillary's plan can actually get regressive: since it ties student benefit to parent worth, any student that is cut off from wealthy parents will get nothing. And I suspect that if you look at that demographic, LGBTQ youth will be highly, highly dis-proportionally represented. I know people who had to quit college due to coming out and being cut off, so this isn't just a 100% theoretical to me. I've asked Hillary supporters before, and the "best" answer I've gotten is that they could wait a year, no longer be considered a dependent on their parents next tax return, and then apply for the money on their own merits, but that's a horrible answer. But then, I always felt like the parental income (asset?) related part of her plan was to make it seem more populous.

On LGBTQ related matters, Hillary said this today: https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/708363242737766401. Kind of at a loss for words on this one.
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SnowFire

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2016, 09:49:13 PM »
One of my close friends was semi-cut off on tuition by his father but for reasons that have nothing to do with LGBT issues (his father divorced & remarried, and his stepmother preferred he spend his cash on kids he later had with her, not on his children with his first wife).  I consider this a failure on the part of the parent, not the government...  it's very difficult to phrase programs like this in a way that won't cause the equivalent of Donald Trump's kids to find a loophole to use the "child of a wealthy parent gets aid if they provide an affadavit that they're not getting money" (and then get the money quietly / under the table).

As for the trade comment, that was just in the NYTimes actually:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/us/politics/-trade-donald-trump-breaks-200-years-economic-orthodoxy-mercantilism.html?_r=0

In general I'm pretty hugely pro free trade being an Economist reader & all, and it always worries me how trade is so unpopular among the voting electorate when it's pretty obvious that most of the candidates would like to be as free-tradey as possible.  (Donald & Bernie are both dragging free traders over to being protectionists.)  As usual, it's very easy that if you look at the *bad* parts of free trade, and the good parts of protectionism, protectionism will look better.  That isn't an accurate comparison, though.  It's the same problem as corporate welfare, but reversed: in corporate welfare, there's a small group of big winners and a large group of people who lose a little.  So it's hugely lucrative to lobby for it and nobody cares for any one instance, but it's death by a thousand cuts.  Free trade has a small group of huge losers and a large group of people who benefit a bit.  NAFTA surely killed *more* than 700K jobs, but how many more jobs did it create?  How much did it raise overall wealth by lowering prices, making everybody's dollars go farther?  Lots of the benefits of NAFTA were totally unforeseen at the time, too.  Anyway, even *if* somehow free trade was bad for the US, what's so special about the US anyway?  If we just take a raw analysis of "Bob the American lost his job to Juan the Mexican", it's not clear to me from a moral perspective why this is a problem.  Good for Juan.

Anyway, don't get me wrong; I'm definitely a fan of very, very generous programs for retraining & support for workers who lose their jobs due to free trade (programs the Republicans always whine about).  After all, if there isn't enough general societal gain to be able to fairly compensate the "losers" and more, then the trade deal really *was* bad.  There are also some potential environmental / human rights issues that can make free trade a bad idea (e.g. a country willing to despoil its environment permanently for fast cash?  Maybe not.)  But even crappy free trade deals are actually probably a good idea (see: TPP).  Get stuff more cheaply here, and have more markets to export to at the same time.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2016, 10:07:05 PM »
In that specific case possibly maybe?

But to build a whole myth around boot straps personal motivation and power, then to have one of the things that helps push you upwards through social strata tied to your parents is a flaw in the concept of "The Dream tm".

Yes there is scholarships and the like, but those are limited and some don't pay your whole way and in many scenarios are very unforgiving on the student.

Which is why socialismfree tuition is the answer to the problem, not Free Market Education.
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2016, 10:43:53 PM »
On LGBTQ related matters, Hillary said this today: https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/708363242737766401. Kind of at a loss for words on this one.

Hey that is a TOTALLY fair thing to say, just like how Jeffrey Dahmer started a national conversation on cannibalism.

(In all seriousness, no Hillary should really really not have said that, but I'm also kinda taken aback by the articles pointing the finger at Nancy in particular as the reason for the Reagan administration's poor response to AIDS.  It seems to assume that Nancy's "just say no" anti-drug campaign explicitly caused the administration not to focus on AIDS, as if it were a zero sum game.  That seems a stretch to me.)
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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2016, 11:28:02 PM »
Anyway, even *if* somehow free trade was bad for the US, what's so special about the US anyway?  If we just take a raw analysis of "Bob the American lost his job to Juan the Mexican", it's not clear to me from a moral perspective why this is a problem.  Good for Juan.

While I'm generally pro-Free Trade as well, and pretty down with the sentiment "what's so special about the US," I think you're way off base when you apply that perspective to the US government.  Given that the legitimacy of government comes from the social contract whereupon the submission to a common government is to provide a betterment of the conditions of the citizens of the nation than they would experience if they did not form that social contract, then the US has to be special to the US government.  If it isn't, then it has no basis upon which to govern.

So, the US government benefiting Juan the Mexican, or Doug the Canadian over Bob the American against his will is as unethical as the Canadian government disfavouring Doug or the Mexican government disfavouring Juan.

Of course, it feels like you somewhat agree with this point later on when you state that if there isn't enough gain to offset the losses then it was a bad deal.  Since benefiting Juan is not a problem so long as Bob's position can be improved.  Or at least, so long as utility is increased across America or the American people voice their support of accepting a loss in exchange for the benefit to others.

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2016, 03:42:49 AM »
On LGBTQ related matters, Hillary said this today: https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/708363242737766401. Kind of at a loss for words on this one.

Hey that is a TOTALLY fair thing to say, just like how Jeffrey Dahmer started a national conversation on cannibalism.

(In all seriousness, no Hillary should really really not have said that, but I'm also kinda taken aback by the articles pointing the finger at Nancy in particular as the reason for the Reagan administration's poor response to AIDS.  It seems to assume that Nancy's "just say no" anti-drug campaign explicitly caused the administration not to focus on AIDS, as if it were a zero sum game.  That seems a stretch to me.)

It got worse. Hillary tried to walk back what she said by claiming that she actually meant to talk about Nancy Reagan's advocacy for stem cell/Alheimzer's research, but there are a few problems with that:
1. She specifically was talking about the 80s, and for obvious reason, no Reagan was talking about Alheimzer's then
2. She specifically mentioned "quiet advocacy," but that made no sense in the context of Nancy's Alheimzer's research advocacy because there wasn't a large stigma
3. She specifically mentioned Ronald Reagan, who again for obvious reasons, was not the one talking about Alheimzer's

Which boils down to there is no way she could have been talking about those issues. And then...(sigh)
...
...
...
...NBC allowed her to retape what she said and aired the new footage on the West Coast broadcast of Nancy Reagan's funeral and completely ignored what Hillary had said in the first taping. Any thin veneer of anti-bias credibility NBC had (for me at least) just got torpedoed. Will probably vote Jill Stein if Hillary is the candidate in the GE now, because blatant corporatism and oligarchy is what consistently gets us into messes.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2016, 05:49:05 AM »
I hardly see how this is a "mess" at all. It's a gaffe? Pandering to relatively right-wing voters? I don't really know and I don't really care; it's hardly the end of the world either way. No offence but if this is the hill you'll die on and are willing to essentially help Trump (or Cruz) get elected
 over it, I'm not too impressed.

Excal: Perhaps I should let Snowfire respond, but from my perspective, I completely agree with him. My government is supposed to represent my interests, and my interests include increasing happiness for other countries, too. There are big parallels for immigration and refugees here, of course. Like yeah, there's a chance that closing off your country to all refugees like Marine Le Pen wants is the absolute best thing for France, but it's still a bad thing for the world, and even if you're French you should be concerned about that. (And in general isolationism and thumbing your nose at the rest of the world is a bad long-term plan even for pure self-interest, but I'd still take issue with it even if it weren't. Countries who give no shits about anyone but themselves are pretty much the national equivalent of asshole hyper-libertarians, and both make the world a worse place for everyone.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2016, 06:33:15 AM »
I don't really know and I don't really care; it's hardly the end of the world either way.

I'm opting for the kindest way of saying this because I believe that this probably comes from not knowing the historical context (and I realize on reflection, there isn't really a reason for a lot of the DL to have context on this and I should have provided better context), but this sentence is very evident of straight-privilege. Her quote is incredibly insulting because Reagan's administration is well known for completely ignoring the AIDS crisis for years because it was a "gay disease." Reagan's silence was so famous that the defining gay/AIDS activist slogan of the time was "Silence=Death" or as ACT-UP unpacks it ‘silence about the oppression and annihilation of gay people, then and now, must be broken as a matter of our survival.’ The slogan was borne in 1987 and was specifically referring to the AIDS epidemic.

You write that it isn't the end of the world either way, but for nearly a whole generation of gay men, it actually was the end of their world (if they didn't die themselves, they saw many friends and partners die). Reagan took 6 years after the CDC recognized AIDS to even publicly utter the word "AIDS" and his press secretary consistently cracked jokes about AIDS when reporters asked him about it. If Reagan hadn't been silent for so long, not only would there have been many fewer deaths then, but it is also likely AIDS would have a much smaller footprint in America. It was serious then and it is serious now.
...into the nightfall.

metroid composite

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Re: Is there a politics thread? Guess I'm making one
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2016, 09:12:46 AM »
Hillary has slipups like this.  She also said "All Lives Matter" while giving a talk in a Black Church recently.

That said, her list of policies on LGBT issues is actually pretty comprehensive (and quite a bit longer than the equivalent page on Bernie's website).  She specifically calls out that the end of DADT only applies to LGB and not LGBT, and that she wants to fix that, for example.  That's the kind of thing that could slip through the cracks (and did slip through the cracks with Obama) so it's good to see it specified.

Was Hillary caught saying something bad?  Yeah, but then again Bernie made a comment that didn't come off well about Ghettos recently.

Gaffs happen.  Joe Biden is still the motherfucking king of them.  I don't really feel like they're worth deciding a vote over.