Author Topic: Persona 4 Golden - Work In Progress  (Read 8103 times)

Tide

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Persona 4 Golden - Work In Progress
« on: December 30, 2012, 02:58:05 AM »
Oh look, a Tide stat topic that manages to be somehow *not* insane. Yes, I surprise myself sometimes too. This topic is exactly what it says on the tin. Persona 4 Golden (P4G), for those of you that don't know, is a remake/expansion of the original Persona 4 on PS2. As such, there are a lot of things that are similar or even exactly the same.

For this purpose, I am referring you to OK's excellently constructed P4 stat topic right here:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,2756.msg46743.html#msg46743

I am not going to go over the basics, terminology or what not because again, it's all been covered. Instead, what this topic WILL do, is list some of the changes made in P4G (compared to P4) as well as some details regarding the new boss, changes to the PCs, and anything else that I am able to dig up.

OVERVIEW OF DIFFERENCES:
Just a very brief listing of some differences for those of you that want to consider P4G forms:

- Level average is generally higher. This is mainly due to the golden hand monsters. These existed in P4, but they did not drop any EXP. In P4G, golden hands drop a ton of EXP. Like enough for party members to sometimes go up 2 level in one go. I'm willing to say that the level average is likely at least 5 levels more than the original P4. For the purposes of this topic, stats are taken at level 88, which is the average I was at at the end of the game. In short, P4 bosses really don't want their P4G forms because it generally means they have lower damage/durability.

- Every party member now keeps their weakness throughout the entire S.Link. However, in return, they also learn a new personal skill that is unique to them (ie: not even Yu/Souji can learn). These skills are learned on tier 3 evolutions starting in January (late game)

- Party members can now relearn skills, but again, can still only keep up to 8. They also learn 10 additional skills that are not found by leveling up; 5 from doing their S.Link and 5 from going on a bike trip. Note that the bike trips, like S.Link levels, are not free actions in game (it consumes time). It is entirely possible to not learn the entire bike trip skill sets.

- As mentioned earlier, there are now 3 levels for Personas evolutions. These third levels require the original S.Link to be maxed + one additional meeting during January. Again, like OK, I am assuming 3rd tier personas (otherwise, this topic loses some of its purpose).

- New weapons and armor are available. I unfortunately don't have a list, and this part will likely take the longest to complete.

- In general, damage average (especially 3 turn damage average) is going to increase. This hurts everyone who relied on damage as their primary means of winning fights (Yosuke/Teddie in particular, really don't like this).

FORMULAS:
Just listing this down for my reference. Damage formula (assuming that there is no change from vanilla P4) is:

DMG = 5 x sqrt(ST/EN x ATK) x MOD x HITS X RND

Credits to Arth and his handy P4 BMG of course. Note that for this topic, Mod (level difference modifier) and Rnd (random damage modifier) are always going to be x1.

A note about armor defenses; these only effect damage taken from physical attacks. It was the same way in the original P4, but I'm not sure if its ever been documented. I can't find any notes regarding how it effects damage taken. My kneejerk is that armor defenses are subtractive, but I have no proof of this for now.

Some additional damage modifiers that I am aware of:
- Enemy is knocked down: +30% more damage
- Crits: +60% more damage
- Enraged: +100% more damage dealt and taken

ALTERNATIVE EQUIPS
Turns out this was a bit easier to find compared to getting damage figures. Anyway, in addition to the equipment that is available in vanilla P4 (refer back to OK's P4 stat topic), these are some of the notable additions for each character

Yu
Bass: 202 Attack, 90% hit. SP+40

Yosuke
Bowling Pins: 85 Attack, 95% Hit. Auto-Sukukaja effect
Inaba Trout: 144 Attack, 95% Hit. Physical Evade +20%
Grilled Corn: 158 Attack, 99% Hit. 20% chance to inflict silence.
Flying Katou: 240 Attack, 94% Hit. Crit rate +20% (I am not sure if this stacks with Brave Blade; if it does, there's actually a better weapon that boosts Yosuke's crit rate by 30%)
Megaphone: 284 Attack, 92% Hit. HP+40
Kashin Koji: 361 Attack, 96% Hit. Randomly inflicts status ailments

Chie
Inline Skates: 71 Attack, 95% Hit. Resists Confusion 50%
Loose Socks: 83 Attack, 85% Hit. SP+20
Foot Maces: 183 Attack, 90% Hit. Reduces Fire damage received by 20%
Furinkazan: 193 Attack, 93% Hit. 30% chance to cause Enervate
Amami Legs: 220 Attack, 80% Hit. Reflects physical damage 20% of the time (Does *not* stack with High Counter)
Mjlornir boots: 253 Attack, 92% Hit. Crit+20% (See Yosuke; not sure if this effects skills).

Yukiko
Flying Disc: 137 Attack, 95% Hit. Physical evade +20%
Disco Fan: 159 Attack, 90% Hit. Capable of inflicting all status effects at a 10% rate for each
Tambourine: 182 Attack, 90% Hit. +3 to all stats
Victory Fan: 312 Attack, 94% Hit. +10% Magic evasion

Kanji
Half sized Tatami: 95 Attack, 89% Hit. 10% chance to inflict Enervate
Body Guard: 174 Attack, 94% Hit. 50% resistance to Exhaustion
Guardian: 299 Attack, 86% Hit. SP+50

Teddie
Crab Claw: 160 Attack, 85% Hit. 30% chance to inflict silence

Naoto
Frost Shot: 190 Attack, 85% Hit. Increases Ice damage dealt 25%
Water Gun: 216 Attack, 80% Hit. 20% chance to inflict Enraged
Machine Pistol: 312 Attack, 93% Hit. Endurance+10


SPECIFICS

Yu Narukami - "Thousands die, but ten thousand are born":


HP: 552
SP: 349

Stats with Yoshistune (@ Level 88)

Str: 63
Mag: 47
En: 59
Agl: 75
Lck: 44

Persona affinities:
Null Physical
Halve Fire
Reflect Lightning, Light

- Main differences: None really. There's two additional S.Links, which expands the amount of Personas available to Yu. However, just like the original P4, Yoshistune is typically his Persona of choice. It covers a wide array of elements, has the best damage move in the game, and has great turn 1 speed.

Comments: Yu's real advantage in P4G as duelling form is that the arguments for inheritance are now much more in his favour. Carryover skills from fusing persona can now be chosen and skill cards can be gained and used to give Personas skills, even when it normally can't learn it. This means if Yu needs a Persona that has really specific requirements, unless it's an illegal move (like trying to transfer a L4 or Hassou Tobi to another persona), it's quite possible in P4G. His main disadvantage will probably be due to the increase in the 3 turn damage curve average as a few of his team mates now also sport Power/Mind Charge.


Yosuke Hanamura - "Feel that mighty wind!":

Level 88
HP: 541
SP: 384

Str: 64
Mag: 60
En: 60
Agl: 65
Lck: 32

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Immune Fire
Absorb Wind
Weak to Electricity

Weapon: Bloody Kunai. 216 Attack, 94% hit rate. Improves Wind damage by 25%. Stacks with Wind Amp
Armor: Passion Sweats. 190 Defense, 18% evade rate. Auto-Tarukaja effect, boosting offense by 40% for 3 turns initially.
 
Default Skillset:
- Diarahan (18 SP): Restores one PC's health to its maximum value
- Garudyne (12 SP): ST Magical Wind elemental attack.
- Brave Blade (20% MHP): ST Physical attack. 20% Crit rate.
- Tentarafoo (12 SP): MT Confusion. Does not check against evade, but rather against luck
- Confuse Boost: Increases the chances of adding confusion
- Wind Amp: Passive, increases Wind damage by 50%. Already factored
- Youthful Wind (25 SP): MT. Heals about 170 HP and adds Sukukaja to all PCs (increased hit/evade for about 40%) for three turns
- Evade Elec: Gives Yosuke triple the evade rate against electric attacks

Additional Skills:
- Dekaja (10 SP): Removes all stat buffs from enemies
- Megido (18 SP): Deals MT Almighty damage to all enemies
- Makajam (5 SP): ST Silence on one enemy
- Sukukaja (12 SP): Improves Hit/Evade by 40% on one PC for three turns
- Masukukaja (24 SP): Improves Hit/Evade by 40% on all PCs for three turns
- Auto-Sukukaja: Begins the battle with Sukukaja in effect
- Green Wall (18 SP): Adds Wind resistance to one PC for three turns
- Makara Break (18 SP): Destroys "Makarakarn" effect, which is similar to Reflect status in Final Fantasy type games. Note that this does not remove the innate "Repel" effect that some PCs may have on their persona affinities.
- Wind Break (15 SP): ST. Sets the enemy's Wind affinity to neutral
- Trafuri (24 SP): ALLOWS ESCAPING FROM BATTLES. YESZ.

Like before, Yosuke also has other similar skills that are of a weaker level (like Garu instead of Garudyne). These are not listed though as they are generally not going to be used once the higher level skill has been learned.

Comments:
Yosuke gains a couple of new skills but he also loses some as part of the deal. As a general rule, SMT weaknesses are bad and you should feel bad for having one. It's worse for Yosuke since his weakness is a common element as well. To accomodate for this, you'll notice some considerable differences in the skillset. Namely, he really wants Evade Elec now as he is one of the PCs that can actually get considerable evade. Wind Boost has been removed for Panic Boost, which forces his default weapon now to be the Bloody Kunai. This way, he keeps his Wind damage consistent but gains boosted odds for Tentarafoo. Youthful Wind is pretty damn good in-game but loses something in the DL translation. Still, being able to heal while buffing yourself is a plus, even if its not a lot. He may opt for just Sukukaja instead especially since he's more stalling geared here.

This form of Yosuke is really more about being defensive than anything. With the damage average increasing (2 additional PCs now get Power/Mind Charge), Yosuke now really struggles in this form to win from straight slugfesting. However, with Panic Boost and Diarahan, he gets some other out options such as literally outlasting opponents with full healing or opting for the brutal P4 confuse. Debatable whether or not he really wants the Passion Sweats as a default. His alternative may be Ame-agari Kesshi, which helps reduce physical damage by 30%.


Chie Satonaka:

Level 88
HP: 580
SP: 279

Str: 62 (66)
Mag: 53 (57)
En: 47 (51)
Agl: 64 (73)
Lck: 44 (48)

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Immune Light
Absorb Ice
Weak to Fire

Weapon: Jet Boots. 218 Attack, 92% hit rate. Agl+5
Armor: Rune Dress. 270 Defense, 14% evade rate. Adds +4 to all stats.

Basic Physical - 80 damage
 
Default Skillset:
- God Hand (22% MHP): 201 damage ST Physical attack. 15% Crit rate.
- Hamaon (15 SP): ST. 60% chance to inflict Light elemental Instant death. Rate reduced by light resistance/luck
- Dragon Hustle (150 SP): MT. Boosts the entire party's Offense/Defense/Hit/Evade rates by 40% for 3 turns.
- Power Charge (15 SP): Spends one turn to charge, deals 2.5x the damage on next physical attack.
- High Counter: 20% chance to block and reflect an opponent's physical attack.
- Auto-Tarukaja: Passive. Begins battles with Tarukaja in effect (improving offense by 40%) for three turns
- Apt Pupil: Passive. Improves Chie's crit rate
- Evade Fire: Passive. Gives Chie triple the evade rate against fire attacks

Additional Skills:
- Bufudyne (12 SP): ST Ice damage.
- Ice Boost: Boosts Ice damage dealt by 25%
- Skull Cracker (6% MHP): ST physical attack that has a 20% chance to add confusion.
- Agneyastra (24% MHP): MT Physical attack that can hit anywhere between 1-3 times for 80 damage a hit.
- Rebellion (5 SP): ST. Boosts user's crit rate.
- Tetra Break (18 SP): Removes "Tetrakarn" effect, which is equivalent to WA: ACF Retailiate (physical reflect essentially).

Same comments regarding additional skills here from Yosuke also apply. Chie has some other skills that are of lower levels that are not mentioned as they'll typically be obsoleted by the later skills.

Comments:
I have assumed the Rune Dress as a default for the females (because hey +4 to all stats is pretty cool), while for the weapon, I just went for the one that gave her more speed because hey, DL values first turns pretty highly. Anyway, this form of Chie isn't all that different from vanilla P4. The biggest difference now is that she has enough additional skills to fill up her skill set that she doesn't need to add the additional ice damage skills unless physicals are walled. She has a stronger physical game as can be seen with Rebellion/Auto-Tarukaja. With the Miori Shirt also being an option, she can begin battles buffed up to boot.

Fire being like the most common element ever, is of course, bad. Evade Fire + Miori Shirt exist to probably push that to turn 2 at least. And giving Chie a chance to get a crack at you is probably a bad idea. You don't want to eat a Power Charge Taru'd crit God Hand. Dragon Hustle is pretty much a dungeon/team match hype skill, but may see use in some matches. Not for extended ones though due to the very high SP cost associated with the skill.


Yukiko Amagi - "Turn to scarlet!":

Level 88
HP: 475
SP: 496

Str: 35 (39)
Mag: 75 (89)
En: 55 (59)
Agl: 54 (58)
Lck: 55 (59)

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Immune Lightning
Absorb Fire
Weak to Ice

Weapon: Hototogisu. 272 Attack, 92% hit rate. Mag+10. No change from vanilla P4
Armor: Rune Dress. 270 Defense, 14% evade rate. Adds +4 to all stats.
 
Default Skillset:
- Burning Petals (34 SP) : Deals severe fire damage to all targets
- Fire Boost: Passive. Increases fire damage dealt by 25%.
- Fire Amp: Passive. Increases fire damage dealt by 50%. Stacks with Fire Boost.
- Mind Charge (15 SP): Spends one turn to charge, deals 2.5x the damage on next magical attack.
- Diarahan (18 SP): Heals user to max HP.
- Mudoon (15 SP): ST. 60% chance to inflict Dark elemental Instant death. Rate reduced by dark resistance/luck
- Matarunda (24 SP): MT. Drops targets offense by 40%
- Evade Ice: Passive. Gives Yukiko triple the evade rate against ice attacks

Additional Skills:
- Agidyne (12 SP): ST Fire damage.
- Salvation (40 SP): Fully heals the party and cures all status at once.
- Amrita (18 SP): Heals all status ailments except for Knock-down and KO
- Valiant Dance (12 SP): MT. 30% chance to add Enraged status on hit.
- Fire Break (15 SP): ST. Sets the enemy's Fire affinity to neutral
- Spirit Drain (3 SP): ST. Drains about 30 SP (aka MP) from a target
- Samarecarm (18 SP): Fully revives one PC

See above comments regarding unmentioned skills here.

Comments:
Yukiko is another PC who has had massive changes to her skillset. While her vanilla P4 set was pretty straightforward, in P4G, she gains a few options, which makes deciding what she wants to keep a little more challenge. Salvation is always an option over Diarahan, but is much more costly (18 SP vs. 40 SP), so it is one that she may not always want. Amrita is a good choice if there is some sort of debilitating status that she wants to be able to recover from, but most of these are likely lethal on hit, so I haven't included it as a choice. Fire Break is situational, and same with Agidyne, if SP costs become a serious issue.

A definite improvement is my kneejerk. She doesn't really lose anything over the affinity changes because she was always weak to ice. Yukiko now packs a couple of tricks up her sleeves that she didn't have before. Mudoon helps her pull off strats similar to P3 Ken if the target can't block Dark/ID. Valiant Dance is a cute option to deal with other healers and synergizes with Matarunda. Speaking of, Matarunda helps control enemy damage too while she sets up for big damage. For everything else she can't cheese out, well, Mind Charge'd Burning Petals. That's pretty much it. Heal when low on HP. Rinse and repeat. Her massive SP pool helps with the costs AND she can also opt for Spirit Drain if she really needs it.


Kanji Tatsumi:

Level 88
HP: 707
SP: 287

Str: 81
Mag: 32
En: 75
Agl: 50
Lck: 33

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Halves Physicals
Absorb Lightning
Weak to Wind

Weapon: Feather Shield. 172 Attack, 96% Hit. Increases lightning damage dealt by 25%. Stacks with Elec Amp.
Armor: Passion Sweats. 190 Defense, 18% evade rate. Auto-Tarukaja effect, boosting offense by 40% for 3 turns initially.

Base physical - 75 damage
 
Default Skillset:
- Primal Force (20% MHP): Deals 258 physical damage to a target
- Ziodyne (12 SP): 125 ST Lightning
- Power Charge (15 SP): Spends one turn to charge, deals 2.5x the damage on next physical attack.
- Elec Amp: Passive. Increases lightning damage dealt by 50%. Stacks with equipped weapon.
- Vile Assault (12% MHP): Deals 151 damage, 334 physical damage on a target that's been knocked down
- Matarukaja (24 SP): MT. Boosts the entire party's offense by 40% for 3 turns
- Rakukaja (12 SP): ST. Boosts target's physical defense by 40% for 3 turns
- Man of Action (30 SP): MT. Chance to knockdown/dizzy targets even when not hitting weakness/scoring a crit.

Additional Skills:
- Maziodyne (22 SP): MT Lightning damage.
- Elec Break (15 SP): Sets target's lightning affinity to neutral
- Masukunda (22 SP): MT. Decreases all enemies' hit/evade by 40% for 3 turns
- Atom Smasher (16% MHP): MT physical attack that hits 1-2x and has a chance to add fear
- Blue Wall (18 SP): ST. Increases target's lightning resistance.
- Mediarama (12 SP): MT. Heals party for about 200 HP
- Regenerate 1: Passive. Kanji regens 2% of his MHP at the start of each round. Stacks with other regenerates.
- Regenerate 2: Passive. Kanji regens 4% of his MHP at the start of each round. Stacks with other regenerates.
- Regenerate 3: Passive. Kanji regens 6% of his MHP at the start of each round. Stacks with other regenerates.
- Fast Heal: Passive. Status attacks that hit Kanji last for half their duration
- Evade Wind: Passive. Gives Kanji triple the evade rate against wind attacks

See above comments regarding unmentioned skills here.

Comments:
Kanji upgrade? He's still sluggish, but his persona's gotten better thanks to physical resistance. That adds quite a bit of oomph to his tanking. Kanji's one of the other characters who doesn't really mind keeping his weakness too much as Wind is not as common of an element compared to Fire, Ice or Lightning. So yeah, definite bonus for him. As for skills, lots of options here too. If he wants to go pure tanking, add the 3 regenerates and Fast Heal. If he's up against someone evasive, Masukunda is an available option over something like Man of Action. Evade Wind is also available if Wind attacks become a problem. This + Masukunda should help jack up his evade to those.

Not 100% sure myself if Man of Action and Vile Assault should be part of his default. They synergize, but Man of Action isn't guaranteed to hit, plus Kanji's got Primal Force. Flip side, I'm not sure what else he wants by default because a lot of his other options vary by situation. Nevertheless, he likes this new form more due to the persona upgrade and of course, POWER CHARGE. Depending on how the damage average pans out, Kanji upgrading is totally possible.


Teddie:

Level 88
HP: 486
SP: 461

Str: 57
Mag: 70 (74)
En: 50
Agl: 54
Lck: 43

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Immune Wind and Dark
Absorb Ice
Weak to Lightning

Weapon: Shitisei Jakotsu. 371 attack, 96% hit. Mag+4. No change from vanilla
Armor: Passion Sweats. 190 Defense, 18% evade rate. Auto-Tarukaja effect, boosting offense by 40% for 3 turns initially.
 
Default Skillset:
- Bufudyne (12 SP): 165 ST Ice damage.
- Diarahan (18 SP): Fully heals target to their max HP
- Matarukaja (24 SP): MT. Boosts the entire party's offense by 40% for 3 turns
- Marakukaja (24 SP): MT. Boosts the entire party's defense by 40% for 3 turns
- Ice Boost: Passive. Increases ice damage dealt by 25%. Stacks with Ice Amp.
- Ice Amp: Passive. Increases ice damage dealt by 50%. Stacks with Ice Boost.
- Evade Elec: Passive. Gives Teddie triple the evasion rate to electric attacks.
- Evade Physical: Passive. Gives Teddie triple the evasion rate to physical attacks.

Additional Skills:
- Mabufudyne (22 SP): MT Ice damage.
- Ice Break (15 SP): Sets target's ice affinity to neutral
- Dekunda (10 SP): MT. Removes all stat debuffs placed on the party.
- Mustard Bomb (16% MHP): MT physical attack that has a chance to add Enervation
- White Wall (18 SP): ST. Increases target's ice resistance.
- Auto-Rakukaja: Begins the battle with Rakukaja in effect.
- Marakunda (24 SP): MT. Decreases enemies' defenses by 40% for 3 turns
- Amrita (18 SP): MT. Heals all status ailments except for Knock-down and KO
- Samerecarm (18 SP): Fully revive one PC
- Kamui Miracle: Randomly does one of the following: fully heal all enemies, fully heal all allies, damage enemies, damage allies, inflicts status on enemies, inflicts status on allies or nothing happens.

See above comments regarding unmentioned skills here.

Comments:
He may want Auto-Rakukaja or Marakunda as part of his standard set. Evade physical however looks like a better staple choice to me (since everyone has a physical), so sticking with that for now. Otherwise, not a whole lot changes for Teddie. Kneejerk is that he's worse overall. Doesn't really gain any new exciting options like Yosuke, but does suffer from the increased damage. KAMUI MIRACLE though is the choice of champions. Seriously. Are you man enough to use it?


Naoto Shiragane:

Level 88
HP: 497
SP: 426

Str: 58 (67)
Mag: 64 (73)
En: 42 (51)
Agl: 64 (73)
Lck: 46 (55)

Persona elemental affinities changed to:
Immune Fire
Reflect Light, Dark

Weapon: Algernon. 230 Attack, 85% hit rate. +5 to all stats.
Armor: Rune Dress. 270 Defense, 14% evade rate. Adds +4 to all stats.
 
Basic Physical - 80 damage

Default Skillset:
- Hamaon/Mudoon (15 SP): MT light/dark instant death. 60% base accuracy
- Hama Boost/Mudo Boost: Passive. Increases hit rate of light/dark by 50%
- Heat Raiser (30 SP): ST. Increases the target's Offense, Defense, hit and evade rates for 40% for the next 3 turns.
- Mind Charge (15 SP): Spends one turn to charge, deals 2.5x the damage on next magical attack.
- Megidolaon (38 SP): MT 110 Almighty damage attack.
- Agidyne/Bufudyne/Ziodyne/Garudyne (12 SP): ST. Deals 119 fire/ice/lightning/wind damage respectively
- Myriad Arrows (18% MHP): MT physical attack that can hit 1-3x. 5% crit rate.
- Angelic Grace: Passive. Doubles Naoto's evasion rate to fire/ice/wind/lightning attacks.

Additional Skills:
- Agidyne/Bufudyne/Ziodyne/Garudyne (12 SP): Naoto has access to all 4 Dynes. However, she'll rarely (if ever) need all 4.
- Mahamaon/Mamudoon (34 SP): Naoto typically only needs one element ID if she's doing her standard strategy. She also has the MT version of these attacks (which are obviously not very helpful in a duel)
- Hama Boost/Mudo Boost: See above. No point in using a boost if you don't have the element attack.
- Invigorate 1: Naoto restores 3 SP every round. Stacks with other invigorates
- Invigorate 2: Naoto restores 5 SP every round. Stacks with other invigorates
- Invigorate 3: Naoto restores 7 SP every round. Stacks with other invigorates
- Tempest Slash (15% MHP): ST. Physical attack that can hit 1-2x
- Tetraja (24 SP): ST. Blocks Instant Death once
- Shield of Justice (160 SP): MT. Makes the party invincible for 1 attack.

See above comments regarding unmentioned skills here.

Comments:
Despite early expectations of Naoto being WHOAMG broken, DL wise, virtually no change at all. Heat Raiser helps, as does now having elemental damage outside Light/Dark. However, without boost and amps, it's still not going to be very impressive. At least the SP costs are more inline though. Shield of Justice has team hype but is pretty much useless one-on-one because unless Naoto can double frequently, it just gets eaten up the next turn by a low damage move. Invigorates, unlike Regenerate, heal fixed amount of SP, which means that in general, they are not very useful DLwise.

Not much else to really add for Naoto. She gains a bit (nulls fire now, Angelic Grace) but her overall strategy doesn't change. She's still aiming for ID 99% of the time and now has some damage back up, but is generally in trouble if she's called to use it. As strange as it sounds, she probably prefers Power Charge over Mind Charge, but dem's the breaks.

And for completion....

Rise Kujikawa:

Level 86
HP: 437
SP: 310

Str: 15
Mag: 25
En: 20
Agl: 21
Lck: 24

Persona affinities:
Neutral to all.

Doesn't take part in actual combat, but provides active support  (starting from S.Link Level 7 and up) including:

- Restores HP (about 170) and status
- Restores SP (about 5% MSP for each ally)
- Provides one team buff (usually either offense up or defense up)
- Provides Mind/Power Charge status to all allies
- 100% chance to stop a fatal attack on any ally (OPB) (S. Link Level 9 only)
- 100% to fully restore the team from death (OPB, MC's HP hits 0) (S. Link Level 10 only)

Passive abilities:
- Complete Analysis: Provides detailed information on enemies (HP/SP/Attacks they possess, elemental affinities) even on a first encounter
- Treasure Radar: Detects treasure chests on the map
- Weakness Scan: Allows Rise to auto detect elemental affinities of one enemy when battle begins
- Third Eye: Allows cursor to auto detect elemental attributes of enemies
- Stamina Song: Restores 10% of MHP at the end of each battle
- Vigor Song: Restores 10% of MSP at the end of each battle
- Enemy Radar: Detects enemies on the map
- Certain Escape: 100% Guaranteed rate to run from battles when hitting run command
- Damage numbers/equipment listings to come.

Comments:
Godlike support abilities late game. Uber dungeon pick clearly.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 04:48:30 AM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
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SnowFire

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Re: Persona 4 Golden - Work In Progress
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 06:40:33 AM »
Since I'm running through P4G myself at the moment, here's a few charts based on Tide's numbers.

HP:
1. 707 (1.29) Kanji
2. 580 (1.06) Chie
3. 552 (1.01) Yu (+Auto-Rakukaja: 1.68 effective)
4. 541 (0.99) Yosuke
5. 497 (0.91) Naoto
6. 486 (0.89) Teddie (+Auto-Rakukaja: 1.48 effective)
7. 475 (0.87) Yukiko

Average: 548


Agility:
_ 75 (75) Yu-Yoshitsune, +1.1 std. dev
1. 73 (64) Chie, +1.1 std. dev
2. 73 (64) Naoto, +1.1 std. dev
3. 65 (65) Yosuke, +0.3 std. dev
4. 58 (54) Yukiko, -0.4 std. dev
5. 54 (54) Teddie, -0.8 std. dev
6. 50 (50) Kanji, -1.2 std. dev

Average: 62 (56)
Average w/ Yu-Yoshitsune: 64
Std. dev: 9.7

(Disclaimer: The girls will frequently drop -4 agility to equip Miori Shirts for Auto-Sukukaja over Rune Dresses)


For damages, I ran these through Arth's formula with the Str/Mag stats in the topic and took a guess at Burning Petals' Attack value based off YouTube + Ragnarok being an existing Severe Fire attack with Attack Power 400 (Guessed 400 Attack by Arth's numbers).  You can see the current results here, which are NOT based off of testing, but are strictly based off Arth's formula vs. enemy endurance of 40:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YJrypUp3YRVzE00OwyGOj5uDn-JhymUwd9_N2pa4xPE/edit?usp=sharing (SnowFire)
https://web.archive.org/web/20131219130533/http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/945498-shin-megami-tensei-persona-4/faqs/54981 (Arth's doc for reference)

That said, this should be vaguely in the right area.  (When I beat the game, I'll double-check, so consider this tentative.)  They don't quite match up with Tide's numbers above, as a warning.  Also, Tide's numbers (and these numbers) are a lot lower than Oblivion Knight's because they assume equal level; OK was probably testing on a somewhat lower-leveled enemy I'd guess.  Easy enough to multiply all the damages *1.2 if you like bigger numbers.  Also some of Tide's numbers above aren't baking in Amps/Boosts, while these are.

Also, damage has the same disclaimer as with agility: The girls will frequently drop -4 strength/magic to equip Miori Shirts for Auto-Sukukaja over Rune Dresses, which will mildly reduce their damage.  Physical skills that cost HP are offset by the amount of PCHP spent, see the raw values for the actual damage.


Damage average
1. 586 (770 raw) Yu, Hassou Tobi
2. 321 Teddie, Bufudyne
3. 288 Yosuke, Garudyne
4. 279 Yukiko, Burning Petals
5. 276 (468 raw) Kanji, Primal Force
6. 190 (360 raw) Chie, God's Hand
7. 121 Naoto, Garudyne

Average: 294, 2.5x killpoint: 735

3-Turn damage average
1. 2248 (2695 raw) Yu, Power Charge -> Hassou Tobi, Hassou Tobi
2. 1174 (1638 raw) Kanji, Power Charge -> Primal Force, Primal Force
3. 977 Yukiko, Mind Charge -> Burning Petals, Burning Petals
4. 963 Teddie, Bufudyne x3
5. 864 Yosuke, Garudyne x3
6. 849 (1260 raw) Chie, Power Charge -> God's Hand, God's Hand
7. 424 Naoto, Heat Riser -> Mind Charge -> Garudyne

Average: 357, 2.5x killpoint: 893


For Yukiko & Naoto, I'm not super inclined to hold the lack of Auto-Tarukaja against them when no less than 3 party members have access to Matarukaja and everyone can use Assault Signals.  These averages assume Auto-Taru is mysteriously banned.

Damage average, no Auto-Tarukaja
1. 410 (550 raw) Yu, Hassou Tobi
2. 279 Yukiko, Burning Petals
3. 229 Teddie, Bufudyne
4. 206 Yosuke, Garudyne
5. 188 (334 raw) Kanji, Primal Force
6. 128 (257 raw) Chie, God's Hand
7. 121 Naoto, Garudyne

Average: 223, 2.5x killpoint: 558


3-Turn damage average, no Auto-Tarukaja
1. 1746 (1925 raw) Yu, Heat Riser -> Power Charge -> Hassou Tobi
2. 983 (1169 raw) Kanji, Matarukaja -> Power Charge -> Primal Force
3. 977 Yukiko, Mind Charge -> Burning Petals, Burning Petals
4. 687 Teddie, Bufudyne x3
5. 618 Yosuke, Garudyne x3
6. 571 (900 raw) Chie, Power Charge -> God's Hand, God's Hand
7. 424 Naoto, Heat Riser -> Mind Charge -> Garudyne

Average: 286, 2.5x killpoint: 715

(* Not listed, but TECHNICALLY Chie does have vanilla Tarukaja she could use for her hypothetical 3 turn here, but eh, whatever)

Lastly, a few other damage skills that come up when not using the option listed above:

255   Yu-Yoshitsune's Ziodyne w/ Auto-Tarukaja (if Elec Amp is kept and Elec Boost is fused in) (yes, he probably has better mage persona options for sheer damage)
329   Yu-Yoshitsune's Brave Blade w/ Auto-Tarukaja (if Hassou Tobi is banned)
370   Yu with some Mage Persona w/ 80 Magic, a Severe damage spell (e. g. Ragnarok), an appropriate amp & boost, and w/ Auto-Tarukaja
332   Yosuke's Brave Blade w/ Auto-Tarukaja
268   Kanji's Ziodyne w/ Auto-Tarukaja
159   Naoto's Myriad Arrows if it gets 2 hits
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 06:20:51 AM by SnowFire »

SnowFire

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Re: Persona 4 Golden - Work In Progress
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2019, 06:50:45 AM »
For a few setup comments....

* Yu/Souji: He has a Sharp Shovel weapon with an Auto-Tarukaja effect if he wants something other than Passion Sweats for his armor: Niagra Climber for Auto-Rakukaja I presume?  Of course he gets the Sharp Shovel weapon after just the 2nd dungeon because that sounds fair.  I suspect this will work best for his default equipment because the DL really values Auto-X skills.

** If Yu's Yoshitsune is granted skills from fully leveled parts, then Yoshitsune gets even crazier, since as Tide notes inheritance arguments are much more in Yu's favor in Golden.  Yoshitsune-with-inheritance, assuming that all the constituent persona parts learn all their skills, might look something like:
Hassou Tobi / Power Charge / Heat Riser / Arms Master / Auto-Masukukaja / Enduring Soul / Ziodyne / Elec Amp
(Not included but also maybe legal, so long as only 5 skills total are inherited: Elec Boost, Null Wind, Apt Pupil, Matarunda, Mahamaon, Hama Boost.)
(Note that I did NOT include Arms Master in the offset for damage averages above, so Yu's effective damage gets even crazier!  And yes, with Auto-Masuku, Yu can start fully buffed!)

* Yosuke/Chie/Yukiko: Auto-Suku + Evade (weakness) should make their elemental weakness basically not exist for the first three turns, at least if they use their Auto-Suku gear.  (Mentioning this since Tide talked about Chie pushing fire attacks to "turn 2", and kneejerk is that it's even better than that?  May require testing, granted.)  In Yosuke's case he only really needs the Bowling Pins when his opponent is faster since he can just directly cast Youthful Wind/ Sukukaja.

* Chie: If Chie is given credit for the Endure auto-life, she might want to try to sneak Bufudyne in there so she has some better option than hoping for an Apt Pupil basic physical hit post-revival in slugfests where Hamaon doesn't matter.  Maybe drops Dragon Hustle on the theory that fights shouldn't be lasting more than 3 turns anyway?  idk.

* Kanji: I'm skeptical of the The Man's Way + Vile Assault combo ever mattering in the DL - the hit rate without some sort of Sukukaja effect is just too questionable, and the damage drop from not getting an All-Out Assault is also notable.  Meanwhile, Regenerate 3 is really great in slugfests.  I think Kanji's best DL set against unknown foes is to drop those 2 & Rakukaja to grab Regenerate 3, Regenerate 2, & Fast Heal myself.

* Teddie: Evade Physical + Ama-Gakure armor (req. a rare drop, in fairness) = good luck hitting him with evadable physicals.  Not 100% sure on just how P4 accuracy works, but if we take it semi-literally - that offers 40% evade - this means Teddie has 120% base evade.  (Granted, if EVERYBODY equips that armor, then you could argue that everybody is pretty evasive and reward Teddie only for being relatively evasive.)  Evade Elec, OTOH, doesn't seem so great - without an auto-Suku effect for Teddie, it isn't saving him from Lightning-users, so why even bother.  Auto-Rakukaja however is totally rad, so I'd sub that in over the Evade Elec myself.  (ICE BREAK is the other option so that Teddie doesn't auto-lose to ice immunes, but hey, there's always physical beatdown!)

* Naoto: I suspect Light blocking is somewhat rarer than Darkness blocking, so I'd guess she should go Hamaon + Hama Boost for her default.  Wind resistance is rare so I'd say Garudyne if she wants to run a -dyne.  Although I'm not sure it's even worth it, running an unboosted Mudoon might well be better anyway rather than the -dyne to handle light-but-not-dark blockers, and her slugging with Megidolaon is not very different than with Garudyne.

Quote
Note that the bike trips, like S.Link levels, are not free actions in game (it consumes time). It is entirely possible to not learn the entire bike trip skill sets.

No kidding.  6*5=30 day actions is a hell of a lot to max everyone out.  Not sure how, but might be worth mildly "punishing" needy party members who most desire the full 5 rides.  This comes out to:
* Yosuke, Yukiko, & Teddie really want the full 5 rides - they get Diarahan, Mind Charge, & Evade Physical, which are all extremely DL-good.
* Kanji & Naoto: Naoto kind of likes 5 bike rides for Angelic Grace spoiling with Miori Shirt & Myriad Arrows, but those two are more dispensable, marginal skill slots.  Kanji would kind of like 4 bike rides for Fast Heal but this is also a marginal and easily replaceable slot.
* Chie only needs a far more reasonable 3 bike rides to grab Hamaon and doesn't usually care about skills 4 & 5 (Bufudyne + Tetra Break).