The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Cmdr_King on October 27, 2014, 06:08:10 AM
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy) - Margulis is considerably tankier and has healing, but his best damage is Fire, and his second best damage is physical. Wrong choice.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) - If MK couldn't handle it, I doubt Rufus can.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Reigenleif counters x3, they burn. A very rare case of Fogel losing a physical slugfest.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) - After equipping some blockers for status resistance, it's pretty much a coinflip if they both go Saboteur. However Fang only cares about Foging Vanille, while Vanille needs to both Fog & Pain Fang, as Fang has a very deadly physical game that'll come out next. Seems like a good tiebreak.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Crazy limit range hax vs. someone slow. Meh.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Meh. Silmeria probably with the status game I never used + Paws lack of status protection. Abstain.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Uhhhhhh.
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Even doubled Rafa physicals aren't cutting it.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III) - Piccolo's weird as by the stat topic, he is more a Middle (above average speed 2HKO a la Lani), but he was classically a Light because of general lack of respect calls for him. I certainly see his spells as slow by default, like they are in-game where you use him, so no, Sazh should cleanly 2HKO first. Even giving Piccolo speed credit, Sazh can arguably cut his combo on the second turn short, which still easily KOs for me (Piccolo not so durable, 3 core classes only for FF13, so Sazh is only a little below average damage).
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Very strong kneejerk. Reicher's offence just feels way, way better, and I can't imagine their durability is that different.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): This is close. If Fou-Lu 2HKOs - and he probably does - then Lady only gets two turns plus her death counter. Still, that's enough for 3.2 PCHP damage, which I think takes Fou-Lu down. There's certainly an argument that Fou 2HKOs and tanks the two Lady turns, but it does need both calls.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3): Can hit both defences and has oodles of stat downs so I don't think it really matters what sort of credit or interps you give Velna here.
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy): Margulis is all elemental or physical, neither of which works well against Kary. Halved Raktas are the best bet (but that's below half HP only!), but I don't think it's enough with Kary hitting the right defensive stat and all, even if evade makes it open to discussion.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria): VP's melee fighters are either light melee, heavy melee, or ranged... all of which have perfect analogs in FFX. Wakka's not piercing, so I don't see Rufus as piercing, ITD or no (FFX certainly has examples of ITD non-piercing weapons, such as celestials). That settles that. (Chocobo Eater might even win this even if you take the other call, but I'm not mathing that out.)
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII): They're both kinda firing status at each other immediately? Fang wants to land Fog which leaves Vanille utterly wretched, Vanille... actually, is in a much worse boat because she really needs to land both. With just Pain, Fang will just Fog her back. With just Fog, Fang still has good physicals. I mean yeah Vanille may get lucky, but especially if Fang has Improved Debilitation, the odds are just in her favour.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII): Yup
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis): ACF Rudy certainly OHKOs Roxis, yeah; he hits harder than I thought. WA1o only 2HKOs, and since he's slow, Roxis should be able to get off enough Chrona Drive + a finishing Trick Edge to go a little past a KO. Buuut... I feel I should probably vote on WA1o. As a group, Rudy/Jack/Cecilia definitely prefer that, as Rudy gets only somewhat worse while the other two get a lot better, and I'm not one to let the characters pick and choose and cheat averages.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World): Well Paws hates both silence and stone so pretty sure he's just screwed there.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant): Hmm. Algus goes first, but Andre lands blind on his first attack and thus odds are one of Algus' next two attacks will miss. So Algus needs to 2HKO. Which he... may? I have a hard time reading SH2 bosses. Andre is certainly more fragile than Lenny, but should compare reasonably well to Veronica/Rasputin. I dunno. And of course there's a chance Algus wins even if he only 3HKOs (blind fails)... but also a chance Andre wins if he's 2HKOed (blind is awesome). Abstain for now, I'll let others make this call.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission): Faster and 2HKOs. This is kind of a slaughter.
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics): Even two doubled Rafa stick beats don't take down Garcia (they do 1.17, he has 1.25 pdur), and he can probably kill her with opening Hand Axe counter + Silver Axe (and gets two shots of the latter, so evade isn't tilting this). So... yeah, she's going for Truth to keep her alive. I don't see this doubling (or triggering counters), as mentioned. Truth 5HKOs but can it keep Rafa alive long enough? Yeah, I... can't really see it happening, Truth heals like a third of average PCHP so Garcia blasts past that pretty effectively, Rafa's only chance is to get lucky with some evade I have a lot of trouble respecting (and I'm really surprised Dhyer does, no shield = below average!)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III): Sazh can barely stave off a 2HKO with Barthunder+Shell. So... open with Haste+Barthunder, Shell+Brave? That gives Sazh... just one turn to finish off Piccolo with. And even with Brave, I don't think Piccolo is -that- frail.
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Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - Just a whole different tier of slugfesting. In two turns, Reicher likely mangled at least two Apocrypha forms and the opposition likely didn't even scratch a third of his health in the in-between.
Fou-Lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Yeah, I think Elfboy's rundown works. Fou-Lu definitely 2HKOs, but Lady 2HKOs back and goes first.
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - Cort is the kind of boss slugger Yuri thrives against.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3) - Oh dear god.
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy) - See Reicher vs. Apocrypha for talking about entirely different tiers of slugging.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) - I'm actually sorta amenable to seeing Rufus being piercing (lots of games treat arrows as piercing damage), but I don't think it's enough: Chocobo Eater goes first and 2HKOs.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - This is actually fairly good considering how I view OB triggering counters, but Fogel's just too insanely tanky against physicals. His accuracy also mitigates Eph's dodging game to a huge degree.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) - Sure.
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Seifer doesn't really have much of an answer to Dekar's limit game - and Dekar himself might survive a No Mercy anyway.
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - ACF Rudy just OHKOs Roxis. WAo Rudy gets overwhelmed by the card game, however.
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - I think Aigis at least pierces through the barrier. Then, healing takes care of the rest. Doesn't hurt that Aigis can buff herself up before having to deal with poison.
Silmeria Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Not really sure how Paws can possibly handle the status game, really. He badly fears Stone.
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - uh
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - She just 2HKOs and goes first. Black Wizard, making most of his matches look like a typical Heavy skirmish.
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Uh no idea. Garcia's Res is -awful-, so Rafa's likely to land more damage off Truth castings. On the other hand, he 2HKOs with Silver Axe (and likely 2HKOs through an average Truth string), and I'm not sure how I feel about that doubling or triggering counters. The alternate strategy (doubled Ivory Rod thwacks on hopes of a Petrify proc) is also dicy due to that "Garcia 2HKOs with Hand Axe+Silver Axe" thing. So uh Rafa's hope is evading. And I don't know how I feel about that Elf Mantle nowadays or allowing Feather Mantles to the whole cast either. I'm likely to abstain here.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III) - Piccolo gets first dibs off a Furious Blow and Sazh can't really kill Piccolo in less than two turns. If he vies for Shell+Barthunder, Piccolo still finishes the 3HKO. If he vies for Haste+Brave, Piccolo finishes the 2HKO. Not panning out.
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Godlike
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)- The Shadows make this very interesting, but Margulis is giving up too much offense here.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Fogel 2HKOs and he is something insane like 8x PC HP against physicals. He does not lose physical slugfests unless you've got some other trick backing it up.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)- Superior status slinger.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- No Mercy's not a OHKO for the PC form which leaves Seifer in a bad way. Boss has no prayer of outlsugging either.
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)-I think Roxis going first is enough here. Rudy is slow enough that Roxis will get a ton of hits in with Timed Cards.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)- Stone, surely.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- ANIMALS HAVE NO GOD
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Stone should be enough, I think?
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Think he manages a 2HKO. It's possible evade could save Rafa but meh.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII)vs Piccolo (Suikoden IIII)- Strong kneejerk.
Uh no idea. Garcia's Res is -awful-, so Rafa's likely to land more damage off Truth castings.
Truth ignores Faith so Rafa's best bet is stick beats here.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - Yeah, whole different tier here.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - ow.
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - sure
Heavy
Nope.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Dekar tanks a No Mercy pretty handily, not willing to hype Seifer's limit game that hard.
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - WA1o Rudy.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Guest form Algus may well 2HKO to me here since Andre is below-par for SH2 bosses and Algus surely goes first here. Boss Algus almost surely loses but I don't vote on that.
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Rafa going for damage is pretty frail, a Hand Axe counter + Silver Axe turn should pretty cleanly off her to me if she goes with her physical, and Truth is basically committing suicide thanks to charge times (and isn't something that is capable of naturally doubling to me and only 4HKOs to me at best). Don't think mantles save her here either.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- Gut reaction is Yuri 2>Cort>Yuri 1. Certainly Yuri 1 trainwrecks badly (probably can't get Cort past 50% HP, at which point Yuri has lost ability to damage him). Yuri 2 can speed up and drain MP, so he can wear Cort down and then EC charge physical for a big finish.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- Seifer doesn't need to OHKO off No Mercy, he just needs to heal lock. Seifer's physical + No Mercy is probably in the 1.7 PC HP range, which is better than Dekar's Pdur. Even if Dekar could survive that, two physicals would do it, and Seifer really only needs 1 double (because 2 No Mercy's will certainly win him the match).
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- For the main 3, I think I stick with the original variants.
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- Barring notes on Algus based on when he leaves because not scaling him up to endgame. Boss notes are the ones we have, and Andre has like double the damage there.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)
For Garcia to Win, he mostly needs all of the following (1 or 2 of them may not doom him alone)
1. Not Scale AS against enemies (Sadly common, but if you do, Garcia does not have very good effective damage! Just like at endgame)
2. Not see Truth doubling. If Truth doubles, she easily 2HKOs off faster speed.
3. Not allow Elf Mantle or not scale evasion as a relative stat (Obviously 25% evade means Garcia misses 1 of his first 2 hits). Actually though, Elf Mantle may not be needed, since Sticks have 20% evade (given the weird way that FE evasion works though, may need to be 25%. Don't have my FE 8 notes on this comp)
4. Give free counters. This one I'm not 100% sure about because of 1-2 ranged counters. I can't remember wait mechanics though (because if Rafa can wait until after Garcia goes, tend gets her next turn quicker due to being naturally faster, she will win)
5. Not hitting Garcia for having really evade Truth (not that I'm sure anyone would see this, but it's there. I'm certainly tempted though, because evade is the most important durability check in game. Any extra hit=Truth may be 2HKOing now. EDIT: On second thought, I would see Garcia getting a hit penalty. I would let high evade FE characters evade it extra (FE evade is awesome, gets everything, etc...), so conversely bad evade gets that punishment)
6. Rafa has some status weapon? I'm assuming 25% hit rate. That...probably can not check either of Garcia's hideously bad possible status checks. This one may not be 100%.
7. If Rafa can move two spaces away and target Truth in the space in between (can't remember here on this). In this case, she runs with this and Garcia doesn't 2HKO her on average. Garcia can not take 3 Truth attacks on average.
#2 is the big one. #7 is also pretty relevant. Regardless this probably underlines pretty well how much I don't like Garcia. At endgame, he's near the worst on the two most important FE stats (AS and Evade), but evade gets neutured in the DL in a way that's hard to avoid and scaling AS against other PCs ends up working far better than it should for him (while shafting people with 22 AS who are great in game).
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)- Faster 2HKO. And yes, it starts slow, but that's not relevant for the DL. Piccolo can easily get it up to that speed legally (if it was not easy, I could see it). Even without the speed boost, Piccolo still has damaging moves that aren't too far from average speed regardless (and average speed would rise without Wizard's Hat).
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On Eph vs. Fogel... it is a good fight, for sure, but just to ramble a bit more on it. If you take OB physical defenses as they are in-game, per super's comment, Fogel should definitely win. FE8, though, has its weakness hitting be more like a flat bonus to damage, which makes it unusually good vs. high defense types like dragons or generals or, uh, both. (On that note, there's a solid argument that Siegmund hits weakness here too vs. Mr. Dragon Head...) FE8 Myrrh, the closest analogue to Fogel, is *immune* to regular physical damage but can still get wrecked by weakness-hitting, for example... I suspect transmogfifying Fogel into an FE8 enemy having super-high FE8 Defense would let Eph win pretty cleanly.
Fairest thing to do is probably something in-between, which is pretty coinflippy! So yeah, good fight.
2. Not see Truth doubling. If Truth doubles, she easily 2HKOs off faster speed.
3. Not allow Elf Mantle or not scale evasion as a relative stat (Obviously 25% evade means Garcia misses 1 of his first 2 hits). Actually though, Elf Mantle may not be needed, since Sticks have 20% evade (given the weird way that FE evasion works though, may need to be 25%. Don't have my FE 8 notes on this comp)
#2 is pretty unusually weak though - Truth hits an *area* not a specific person, so doubles don't easily seem to apply, even ignoring the Radiant Dawn "MT doesn't double" precedent. To put things another way, Truth isn't even MT, it is a unique weird effect that can hit Rafa/opponents/nothing.
For #3, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't weapon evade only apply if you set the Weapon Guard passive, which only Knight has? (FFT, telling you about all these weapon evasion stats that don't actually matter...) Also, if Mantles are allowed, surely wouldn't Rafa want a Feather Mantle? (I'm not personally a fan of giving the whole cast 40/30 evade, of course, for all that this feels like an arbitrary nerf...)
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2. Note that there is no real "Without Radiant Dawn precedent." Before then, I don't think MT was really seen as evading doubles. But Truth is wacky AoE. It's not true MT, so one could go either way (or just say that those few RD attacks are in their own special category anyways, and not apply the MT thing in the DL). The MT thing is...horribly, horribly, horribly beneficial for Garcia in the DL. If someone doesn't want to extend further credit to someone who already has two really really big structural DL benefits that he doesn't enjoy in game, that seems pretty reasonable.
3. Yeah, didn't know about Weapon Guard.
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But does Rafa even get Weapon Guard in her skillset? That's a Knight skill, and you can't enjoy the evasion boost from weapons if you don't have it set. Innate Weapon Guard is also bugged and doesn't actually work.
EDIT: Nvm Snowfire explained it.
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I agree that if Truth doubles, then Rafa wins without question. I'm just not terribly inclined to make respect checks for Truth, ever. Garcia's bad in-game for all the reasons you said (though his start is kinda okay), but Truth is in-game trash.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia): Just a better slugfester.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Formchain works for me, as I'm pretty lenient about that.
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series): Yuri2 does his thing.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy): Fire and physicals are not the answer to this quiz, Margy.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria): Yeah I guess this is pretty brutal.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones): I think Fogel is better at this. Though Siegmund hitting a weakness is brutal...
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII): Has a better, more diverse game.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII): Doubles and the threat of No Mercy should do it?
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis): Should I abstain on ACF?
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3): Plentiful healing.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World): Don't worry Paws she'll release your soul in a few centuries.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant): Animals do, as it turns out, have a god.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics): AS scaling damage means Garcia... well, yeah.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- No vote.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)- No vote.
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- Um probably.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- no vote.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - WA1o Rudy.
I think you bolded the wrong side. >_>
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So I did, thanks.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Think hitting weakness does Fogel in.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) - Better at the same game.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) Is Rudy significantly better in ACF than in o? This seems like a bit of an issue considering a lot of people have only played o...
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Not sure Silmeria is a Middle?
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Double stick beats and some evasion I think seals this. Amused that this has been the most hotly debated contest of the week...
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) Is Rudy significantly better in ACF than in o? This seems like a bit of an issue considering a lot of people have only played o...
The mold's roughly the same, but Rudy's offense in particular is a lot better. He loses a bit of durability but, instead of a mehish 2HKO, he gains borderline OHKO damage that, given a couple turns for FP building, rises into ITE overkill, as well as a move that mitigates his speed woes to a degree in Sniper Bullet. WAo Rudy is a pretty strong Middle, but ACF Rudy is a clean Heavy in spite of speed.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) - I feel like they would probably get along if we weren't making them fight to the death.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Hmm.. yeah, I think I voted this way the last time this match came up.
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - Cort beats Yuri1, but I'm fine with Yuri formchoice.
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)- No vote. I just don't remember Dragon Emporer well enough...
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) - Even allowing Rufus piercing, it seems CE has the upper hand.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Kneejerked Fogel, but weakness-hitting tips it the other way!
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) - Well, we always knew who was the dominant one in this relationship...
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - I can see PC Seifer as roughly as damaging as the standard view that isn't taking Junctioning into account, but I tend to view his durability a little lower than most due to Summons themselves being meatshield options even with no spells junctioned on at the time of his departure. Think this tips things in Dekar's favor.
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - Sure, I remember ACF Rudy being pretty strong, though I don't know that I'd argue he's a Heavy...
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Space Cat gets Stoned. I knew it.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Not a good week for Cats.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Two of my favorite Lights =)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III) - better kneejerk respect for Sazh's damage than most.
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Honestly I don't think there's that large a gap between the Rudys, though do note that I vote on WA1o without mediums which makes Rudy's 2HKO quite impressive indeed there, too. (Still need to actually look at that much...)
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It's not a full division shift, no. It just kinda happened that most of Rudy's matches in-site at this point have involved the fact that ACF Rudy exploits low durability better than WA1o Rudy does. High Middle vs. Low Heavy isn't HUGE, true.
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I agree that if Truth doubles, then Rafa wins without question. I'm just not terribly inclined to make respect checks for Truth, ever. Garcia's bad in-game for all the reasons you said (though his start is kinda okay), but Truth is in-game trash.
In fairness, with a few views, Rafa would win on physicals. PHYSICALS. RAFA. This is why Garcia is sad.
Idly wondering if allowing accessories might give Rafa the win too. Everyone will get the same damage boost, but she'll be attacking an extra time thanks to a double (She'll open with Truth, then double physical). Cid already has the accessory, so his damage won't increase. Malak's may not either. Agrias' will be smaller since she already has an attack boost. Additionally the damage average should probably be a little lower (For Worker 8 self destructing at the very least). That said, I realize that Bracer is +3 Attack, but also hideously expensive (I think? Almost double the next accessory). This may or may not pan out (needs lots of math), but another argument is there!
That said, I'm assuming that despite running on MA, Rafa's physical otherwise functions as a physical attack. If it his Garcia's mdef, that would also be a win for her I think.
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Think Defense UP hits it in game, yeah.
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Figured it probably did, but thought I should check just in case since I think that would end up giving Rafa a much cleaner win for the more standard views.
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Godlike
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)- The Shadows make this very interesting, but Margulis is giving up too much offense here.
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Fogel 2HKOs and he is something insane like 8x PC HP against physicals. He does not lose physical slugfests unless you've got some other trick backing it up.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)- Superior status slinger.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- No Mercy's not a OHKO for the PC form which leaves Seifer in a bad way. Boss has no prayer of outlsugging either.
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)-I think Roxis going first is enough here. Rudy is slow enough that Roxis will get a ton of hits in with Timed Cards.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)- Stone, surely.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- ANIMALS HAVE NO GOD
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Stone should be enough, I think?
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Think he manages a 2HKO. It's possible evade could save Rafa but meh.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII)vs Piccolo (Suikoden IIII)- Strong kneejerk.
Uh no idea. Garcia's Res is -awful-, so Rafa's likely to land more damage off Truth castings.
Truth ignores Faith so Rafa's best bet is stick beats here.
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Bracers are expensive when they first show up but they're not a problem by the end. Note they barely cost more than a Thief Hat.
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Honestly I don't think there's that large a gap between the Rudys, though do note that I vote on WA1o without mediums which makes Rudy's 2HKO quite impressive indeed there, too. (Still need to actually look at that much...)
Agreed on the difference in division gap. Part of the issue IMO lies in the FP gain rates. It takes Rudy at least 3 turns to use Lock On, which are often times going to be turns he doesn't get due to bad speed and low MDef. His damage is higher, but that doesn't really address his WA1o flaws.
Bracers are expensive when they first show up but they're not a problem by the end. Note they barely cost more than a Thief Hat.
Yar, I believe the difference is 5000 Gil (Bracer is 35,000, Thief Hat is 30,000) which is not much at end game. That or its 15000...still not terribly significant if you're only fitting 4-5 people (You can get most of the gil from doing story battles basically).
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Bracer is 50k in FFT.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy) - Kneejerk, really.
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) - Hell if I remember Chocobo Eater beyond "aren't you supposed to push it off a cliff".
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Evade isn't saving against fogel, and he still counts as a human unit, not a monster, so no Sigmund hitting weakness.
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII) - Better slugger
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - Rudy's speed sinks him, sure. Roxis gets too much time to build up nonsense. EDIT - I forgot ACF! ACF Rudy just slams him down and moves on. Tough break, Roxis.
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - Me and prophet respect
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - Status, sure
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) - :rafa:
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Godlike
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X) vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs) vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Aigis (Persona 3) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy) vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)
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Heavy
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)
Hilarious. Haven't played but know enough about FF13 to know about the connection between the two.
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)
At first glance, an all physical character against Lufia 2's physical tank seems like a foregone conclusion. And for what it's worth, I see No Mercy as slower to come out than straight attacking to reflect the ingame usage. It's the general impotence of Lufia 2 defense combined with Dekar's extreme sluggishness that can snatch defeat form the jaws of victory. As much as I enjoy bringing PC Seifer's insane limit range into play, it takes so many judgment calls in his favor for him to claim a win here.
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
I see boss Algus as durable enough for Auto-Potion to fire off at least once. Damage, on the other hand...
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)
If one sees Rafa as 2HKOing with Truth, she'll need at least 3 castings to land those two hits. That approach calls for Wizard Staff, Thief Hat, and Black Robe since Heaven Thunder and Asura will be the weapons of choice.
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Godlike
Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- iiiiiiii vs Apocrypha (Radiant Historia)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV)- ii vs Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- iiiiiiiii
Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- iiiii
Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)- iiii
Heavy
Margulis (Xenosaga Series)- ii vs Kary (Final Fantasy)- iiiiiiiii
Chocobo Eater (Final Fantasy X)- iiiiiiii vs Rufus (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)- iiiiiii vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- iii
Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiiiiiiiii
Middle
Dekar (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)- iiiiiiiiii vs Seifer Almasy (Final Fantasy VIII)- iiii
Rudy Roughknight (Wild ARMs)- iiii vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- iiiiiii
Aigis (Persona 3)- iiiiii vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- iiiiiiii vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)
Light
Algus Sadalfas (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiii vs Andre (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- iii
Racially Insensitive Wizard (Final Fantasy)- iii vs Cinnamon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- iiiiiii
Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- iiiiiiii vs Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiii
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiii vs Piccolo (Suikoden III)- iiiiii