Author Topic: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals  (Read 1042 times)

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5560
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« on: July 12, 2016, 03:56:49 AM »
Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)

Heavy

Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Bishop Stone (Xenogears)

Middle

Melbu Frahma (Legend of Dragoon) vs Warlock (Suikoden IV)

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)

Data Mine- For each of the following games, please indicate if you have played the game.  Additionally, if you object to ranking the game on mechanical or similar grounds, please indicate this as part of your vote.

Fire Emblem Fates
Bravely Second: End Layer

I kinda derped the last... three?  times on doing this so I know it's been forever, but I'm really not seeing any DL-relevant games in that time span aside from sequels to games that aren't ranked (eg. Trails SC/Trails of Cold Steel) so I just put up the obvious options and hope nobody else has been dying to get data on something.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9630
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 04:55:22 PM »
Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)

Haven't played either game.


Pool for this season!

Chris, Endora, Black Fiend, Magus, Sharon, Bishop Stone

Tiamat, Auron, Edgar, Justin, Melbu Frahma, Warlock

Pent, Bob, Nelis, White Wizard, Tia, Sheena


No time to do the pools in depth, will cover more later.

H/G kneejerk is that Sharon stays down. She is getting swept. Bishop Stone might change things but I just don't remember him enough to say.  H/M Kneejerk that Tiamat goes down (He's eating ID from Edgar and Justin and Auron smashes his face in so hard with magic break) and Warlock may stay down.  L/M requires a lot of thought, there are a bunch of close matches and research involved. I have absolutely no idea there, could be any of the six that end up at the bottom.


Chris, Endora, Black Fiend, Magus, Sharon

Tiamat, Auron, Edgar, Justin, Warlock

Pent, Bob, Nelis, White Wizard, Tia

L/M:

Tia: 3-1 (Loss: Nelis)
WW: 3-1 (Loss: Tia)
Nelis: 3-1 (Loss: WW)
Bob: 1-3 (Loss: All but Pent)
Pent: 0-4
Nelis OHKOs or heal locks everyone but WW, who has enough MP and magic durability to deal with the blitz.  WW walls everyone but Tia, who can block her status and wear her down. It isn't like WW can threaten her with physical offense! Tia's healing/limits handle everyone but Nelis. Bob needs a lucky crit to win and he only has three turns and no damage control against Tia, that won't cut it.

Bob manages to outslug Pent, though that's really close. Pent has a bunch of close matches but he just feels slightly outclassed by everyone. It's a weird field, a bunch of 3.0 to 3.3 middles (and Nelis). If you don't vote on DoS Nelis would sweep but I think WW still beats Bob and Pent.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 04:58:27 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8130
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 10:00:46 PM »
Tiamat has 88% resistance to ID (Rub gets reduced to 0.5%), so you have to see any ID moves hitting her in time as essentially being perfect accuracy. Edgar has an argument (for all that I'm inclined to say that Air Anchor does not deserve judgement calls), Justin not so much.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8130
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 01:57:07 AM »
Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star): Even if everything goes her way (surviving one round from Ghaleon, high disrespect for Ghaleon's speed), she gets what... 7, maybe 8 attacks off? And I still don't think that's enough.

Heavy

Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Bishop Stone (Xenogears): Sharon wants to fill her AP with her opening attack then have a MA to win with. This... works even assuming she can't use a MA at exactly 50% HP (and to be fair, due to how rounding works in most games, this is probably the case). Unless Stone can slow her and then double at the right time, but that requires not letting people wait and even then may not work, I'll leave that to others.

Middle

Melbu Frahma (Legend of Dragoon) vs Warlock (Suikoden IV): Warlock has no status protection besides whatever credit I'd give his MDef, and you don't want to try to blitz Melbu with magic (I know Warlock is partially ITD, but still).


Data mine

Fire Emblem Fates: Played it, all routes, it's great, people should play it, etc.
Bravely Second: End Layer: Played it (not done yet, but getting there, and will certainly be finished by the time it can even be considered for ranking.


H/G pool:

Chris, Black Fiend, Magus, Sharon, Bishop Stone

Black Fiend really hates Silent Lake, although she's a hell of a wall so... mm. Actually, she has a counter to it, she can use her really fast MP-drain attack, which should limit Chris to two SLs at most, and since she's over 10 pdur even some crit-ITD hype isn't going to let Chris put much of a dent in that, and then when SL is gone Blackie 2HKOs. Against Magus she has NE magic damage, lol. Against Sharon, MP-drain again. That leaves Stone who is a major spoiler with that MDef, while Blackie's own spoiling doesn't affect Stone at all.

So is Stone godlike? That'd be super-weird. A loss to Sharon is described above, Chris is the type of healer he hates (slow helps a bit, but the healing removing it means not much). Him vs. Magus is certainly close... Stone 11HKOs, Magus 12HKOs with his physical. I think Magus is barely faster (Slow doesn't work), and very fortunately for Magus I let him choose his counter, so the tickles of Dark Bomb slowly add up and let him just win the slugfest.

Chris can turtle through Magus nonsense pretty well. She can drop SLs and unload free damage (Magus can't outslug her during that time), or just get through by healing periodically since Magus damage isn't too hot. Can't imagine she loses. Against Sharon... I dunno. She has a hard time avoiding a MA, and charm could mess her up too. She could win (2HKO with Phoenix as a finisher), but needs everything to fall her way. I'm open to argument on this one but it doesn't really matter.

So actually Sharon's looking damn good, go figure. Magus can't dodge MAs worth shit and is just OHKOed by one I think, for all that even if he doesn't he'd need a finishing physical to do the job or Sharon pokes his normal defence for the win. Sharon in Godlike? There are weirder things I guess.

Black Fiend 3-1
Sharon 3-1
Chris 2-2
Magus 1-3
Bishop Stone 1-3

Conclusion: Stone stays down. Sharon up... Magus down? Feels weird.


M/H pool:

Tiamat, Auron, Edgar, Justin, Melbu Frahma, Warlock

So let's start with Melbu I guess. The durability is too much for Tiamat... though it might not be if not for the NE magic damage in form 2. Auron might be able to take this if not for confuse at the end, I think (he can block petrify). Edgar is bad against bosses, Justin might take this if not for SP limits, Warlock is discussed above.

Auron has ITD which Tiamat already hates, Magic Break makes her even more unhappy if that's seen as working. Even if it doesn't uh one low-HP shot from Auron may well kill. He gets confuse-locked by Edgar (or IDed if he blocks that), ID protection + Power Break + counter beats Justin, he can't hit Warlock first turn then gets one-shotted by Earthquake (or close enough that it makes no difference).

I certainly don't view Edgar's status as good enough to overcome Tiamat's resistance, but he 2HKOs with CHAIN SAW. (Yes.) His status cheese also beats Warlock, but not Justin who blocks both relevant ones.

Justin does 55.7% against Warlock's 55.8% pdur, are you kidding? Saves me the trouble of deciding how I view evade there. Against Tiamat he hits the wrong defence while Tiamat 3HKOs... even if she 4HKOs it doesn't matter.

That leaves Warlock vs. Tiamat, and Tiamat immuning earth is a bad time for him, as is her barely 2HKOing his bad HP.

Melbu 5-0
Edgar 3-2 (loss: Justin, Melbu)
Auron 2-3 (loss: Edgar, Melbu, Warlock)
Warlock 2-3 (loss: Edgar, Melbu, Tiamat)
Tiamat 2-3 (loss: Edgar, Melbu, Auron)
Justin 1-4 (loss: all but Edgar)

No tiebreak for the middle cluster, although I'd strongly caution against downgrading Auron! Inclined to say Melbu up, Justin down (although really none of the Heavies should downgrade... I can see Tiamat but as this pool shows she tends to spoil too much).


L/M pool:

Pent, Bob, Nelis, White Wizard, Tia

Let's start with Nelis since she's very much on the wrong division border. Pent gets 2HKOed and can't counter, RIP. Bob's tougher, since his transformation boosts his MDur to the point where Nelis needs three turns to kill him... and Bob is faster, so yeah never mind, he 2HKOs first. White Wizard resists fire which is also a problem for Nelis. Nelis does 31% with her best spell or 27% with physicals. WW can alternate Invis 2 and Cure 4 and get to immunity to all but the fire spells before she is killed, at which point I think the lower healing outlasts Nelis' MP too (all but the best 7 spells do 10%) but it's kinda close. Nelis OHKOs Tia.

Okay so let's look at Bob. He 2HKOs Pent so Pent gets 2 turns + 1 counter and that certainly isn't enough. But Bob might miss once, his Tech is slightly subpar and Pent can dodge some. So Pent gets 3 turns + 2 counters? And that's still not enough! Luckilly for Bob he has 3 transformed turns. WW's healing is bad for him, though, especially since she gets to buff once first. At worst she heals off his three turns, unless he doubles which meh not inclined to hype especially since he'll likely miss once anyway. And then he only 3HKOs so can start throwing in Invis again and eke out a win. Finally, against Tia he... misses the average damage KO by 0.1%! Second time in a week, wow. 61.1% against Tia's 61.2% pdur. Well that means he's hosed.

So WW's 2-0 already, crazy. Against Pent... Pent gets the drop on her with Thunder which 3HKOs, but then WW uses Wall and it's a 9HKO. But... good lord, WW offence. Every hit triggers a counter and Pent and it's a 19HKO to average, which Pent is above in practice (his evade should more than offset his PDur). She does have one shot of Holy in there, though, which is a 5HKO and shaves off a bunch of her needed turns, probably gets it down to 20 or turns of offence. She can attack three times then heal to full so that's 15 attacks or so (less actually, since Pent's opening hit) then she has to use weaker healing. And that only somewhat outpaces Pent's damage, she can use two shots of Cure 3 to get in one more attack, three times. So three more attacks. Plus one at the end. That's... 18-19? Mm. Close but I think she comes up short, especially since we haven't hyped the effect of Pent's modest crit forcing her to heal a bit more in a long fight. I'm reminded what L'Arachel won this.

All that for one match? Okay. WW vs. Tia, then. Tia's healing gives her the edge here, her resources last longer and she'll get IPs. I mean Miracle is probably GG since surely WW can't dodge that ever.

What a ridiculous field. This leaves Pent vs. Tia. Pent 2HKOs with Elfire. Or even Elfire + Thunder. That said he has to attack or Tia rains sleep on him which does occasionally hit and stick and gives her a free hit. So Tia heals a bunch and she gains IP. On a doubleturn she uses Battle Lust, then can OHKO with Aqua Attack. This needs 78 IP, with Pent doing constantly around 50% damage... 3-4 attacks will be enough. So yeah, Tia kills quickly enough that crits don't enter the equation.

Tia 3-1 (loss: Nelis)
White Wizard 2-2 (loss: Pent, Tia)
Bob 2-2 (loss: Tia, White Wizard)
Nelis 2-2 (loss: Bob, White Wizard)
Pent (loss: all but White Wizard)

Weird field, we were very close to everyone 2-2! Pent down I guess.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 01:50:23 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 10:13:54 PM »
Yay for having 1 nom in every nom division left


Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)

Heavy

Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Bishop Stone (Xenogears)- Yay for getting to vote for Sharon in a final match. She's someone who never really managed to get a run together in the DL proper, IIRC

Middle

Melbu Frahma (Legend of Dragoon) vs Warlock (Suikoden IV)- Yay for Warlock being here period. I nommed him since season 59, so I'm really glad that he got some mileage out of this run

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)- Combo of doom works well here

Data Mine- For each of the following games, please indicate if you have played the game.  Additionally, if you object to ranking the game on mechanical or similar grounds, please indicate this as part of your vote.

Fire Emblem Fates- Haven't played (but shouldn't this be broken out by game?)
Bravely Second: End Layer- Partial Play
...into the nightfall.

OblivionKnight

  • Boom! Big reveal: I'm a pickle. What do you think about that?
  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2999
  • I'm Pickle Rick!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 10:21:04 PM »
Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - Yeeeeeeep

Heavy

Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Bishop Stone (Xenogears) - Gear boss :(

Middle

Melbu Frahma (Legend of Dragoon) vs Warlock (Suikoden IV) - Boss!

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) - I....think all magic makes this work? 

[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2188
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2016, 12:44:58 AM »
Godlike

Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - oh rip

Heavy

Sharon (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) vs Bishop Stone (Xenogears) - oh rip 2

Middle

Melbu Frahma (Legend of Dragoon) vs Warlock (Suikoden IV) - oh rip 3 but good run, geezer

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals) - I'm not sure how anything gets Tia out of the combo of doom here?  So oh rip 4

Fire Emblem Fates - played
Bravely Second: End Layer - not played
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:53:57 PM by Random Consonant »

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5560
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016, 02:09:37 AM »
Fire Emblem Fates- Haven't played (but shouldn't this be broken out by game?)

I decided that it really comes down more to people self-regulating on what is and isn't okay to nom more than which game is ranked.  I'll admit that tracking three games with that much crossover in cast seemed like a lot of work to no real gain though which played a big part in that decision.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4934
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 02:42:25 AM »
Belial (Wild ARMs 4) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)

FE Fates: Yes.
Bravely Second: No, and not for awhile, Trails of Cold Steel if nothing else comes first, and there's probably some elses in there too.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2016, 05:11:34 AM »
Fire Emblem Fates- Haven't played (but shouldn't this be broken out by game?)

I decided that it really comes down more to people self-regulating on what is and isn't okay to nom more than which game is ranked.  I'll admit that tracking three games with that much crossover in cast seemed like a lot of work to no real gain though which played a big part in that decision.

Maybe at least breaking into the main 2? Since I don't think anyone played the 3rd without playing 1 of the other two? It just does seem weird if there are a lot more players of one game, it will cause a skew (and if one game is really lacking compared to the other game, it won't really have the legal number of voters to be ranked).
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8130
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2016, 05:22:35 AM »
We didn't track Mana Khemia 2's routes separately, which was kinda similar. Of course I disagreed with that at the time. <_< That said, whatever Cmdr wants to do is fine with me. Just encourage anyone who has only played one route to say so just in case there is a skew I'm not expecting, I guess?

(For all that, technically, you can vote on pretty much everyone if you've played even one route, because route-exclusive PCs are almost invariably bosses on the other route... Elise and Nyx are about the only exceptions I can think of. The bosses don't have stat topic entries, sure, but if you're voting by stat topic anyway you might as well just vote on the other route's PC forms.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4934
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 06:50:47 AM »
For whatever it's worth, I would certainly expect that non-route exclusive PCs would get nom'd first and perhaps more often, similar to say Tactics Ogre.  The likes of Jakob, Felicia, Azura, Kaze, Silas, & Mozu are pretty much guaranteed safe to vote.  (Corrin themself is a slightly more complicated case, of course, but same deal.)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 06:53:01 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8130
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 07:31:28 AM »
Mmm, maybe. I would expect Ryoma, Xander, Camilla, Leo, etc., to be nommed more often than a lot of people on that list.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Twilkitri

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 11:19:51 PM »
Godlike

Heavy

Middle

Light

Sheena (Tales of Symphonia) vs Tia (Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals)

Data Mine

Fire Emblem Fates - Played Birthright & Conquest
Bravely Second: End Layer - Played

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5560
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2016 Season 2 Finals
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 03:24:22 AM »
Belial  Ghaleon- iiiiii
Sharon- iii   Stone- i
Melbu- iiii   Warlock
Sheena- iiii  Tia- i
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.