Author Topic: Doubles Tournament: Round 2  (Read 1040 times)

Cmdr_King

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Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:29:24 AM »
This topic will run for two weeks due to most of the voting base buggering off to San Francisco for the week.

Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

Groudon and Exeggcutor (Pokémon) vs Zelos Wilder and Sheena Fujibayashi (Tales of Symphonia)
Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga)
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 02:11:57 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Raquel blocks ID. Arnaud blocks both ID and Silence, which makes his stats kinda suck, but piling up Illusion on Alena makes this largely not matter, and even post-blockers, they have problems landing a kill on him first turn. After that, even if Kyril lands Surround, it just doesn't matter, because Arnaud has Dispel and Raquel starts getting turns.
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - Uh for starters, Et and Raze want to kill Demi -stat-. I think they can even pull this off if they get lucky on timed cards, but timed cards unfocusing is -really- bad for them and I have issues seeing them being able to handle Wren's nearly 2x pdur and close to full healing, and I think both Wren and Demi are faster. Once Et falls, Raze just can't possibly stand up to Wren even if they put down Demi.
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Beast Toss is faster than SBE and that's more or less insurmountable, I think.
Yuri Hyuga and Karin Koenig (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour Falenas and Lyon (Suikoden V) - It'd be nice to know whether combo spells go off at the speed of the fastest or slowest member involved. This said... it actually doesn't matter. If Yuri For Tomorrows, Karin can't finish off both Frey and Lyon due to their fire immunity even if their mdur is kinda junky, and she -might- not be able to finish the 2HKO even on Lyon (in fact, it's only guaranteed if Yuri goes with For The Children due to Prone), and Freyjadour 2HKOs through For Tomorrow. Vermillion Sky => Crimson Sky ends the fight right there and I can't really see what Yuri and Karin can do about it.

Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) - Even seeing Dark Sword as evadable by FE... I'm not really sure. The odds of him picking up at least one of the twins is decent enough, especially compounded with Jean's own status. My kneejerk is that Hiro gets two turns to spam his MT ID with and that's hard to come back from.
Riou and Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga) - Good lord. Sharon could even go first, but she won't shut any of the boys down first turn on average, and Hungry Friend OHKOs her ass pretty bad. Any follow-up from Riou ends the entire fight.
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Eh, not now. Depends on a respect check for Pamela's status, since MK Silence on Umi shuts down most of what she can do and the CSTWers have -serious- issues damaging Pamela, but they can shut down Vayne easily enough and Pamela struggles about as badly offensively against the opposition.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:51:56 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 08:33:22 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Yeah I can't really think of any reason to disagree with Snow here.
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - Yeah I really don't think the timed sphere deal works out for the MK2 duo that well.
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - Yep.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

Groudon and Exeggcutor (Pokémon) vs Zelos Wilder and Sheena Fujibayashi (Tales of Symphonia)
Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) - Something unpleasant is going to stick at some point.
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Pamela doesn't immune elemental physicals (seriously lol to that passive ingame) and can only silence one person at a time so I don't see how this is hard really (heck Dark Sword might even OHKO her).
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:36:09 AM by Random Consonant »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 08:38:34 PM »
Actually, Pamela -does- immune elemental physicals as long as they have the physical-elemental tag. Some of them just happen -not- to have the physical tag, like Flay's Raiden Charge'd attacks, even though they -do- hit pdef. It's a convoluted mess.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 08:42:57 PM »
I recall basically no examples of elemental physicals that had the physical-elemental tag though so you'll excuse me for not giving it any respect whatsoever here.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 11:00:08 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4): Snow's analysis seems solid to me.
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Wren/Demi fall just fractionally short of one-rounding Et. Still, they can set it up for next turn, and Raze + Et... don't do a great job of gunning Demi down before then. But best-case scenario, they do. Demi still gets her first turn, Wren kills Et with his second, and at this point it's Raze vs. Wren which is a duel Wren can win.
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger): Yeah, Robo outspeeds Spellbinding Eye, and Elena only has two shots of revival so they can keep killing Millenia as needed. Still, Millenia + Elena could use faster things to interfere? Millenia in particular could slow Robo maybe, such that Elena could then revive her immediately and then she could outspeed Robo to use SBE first next round? Mmm.... yes, Cold barely does this (not Heel Crush). So Cold then Droplets of Life. Only wait, there's a problem: full-power Robo alone does 86.8%, Millenia has 86.5% pdur. So Ayla is free to Triple Kick Millenia immediately after the opening Droplets, which 2HKOs her, then do it again before anyone else gets a turn. Elena could instead try to disrupt Robo's HP, but then Beast Toss still kills and there's no revived Millenia to do anything next turn.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V): Vermilion Sky, Yuri saves himself, Crimson Sky. For Tomorrow doesn't do nearly enough to save Team Yuri, neither does buffing of course. Mind/Body Revival, though, that will do it. And Yuri will get the next turn after that as well, though not sure what he should do at this point, since he's once again on death's door and the next turn is Lyon's. Heal again? But then Freyjadour and Lyon go again and that's game.

Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones): I'm not sure exactly what stats I'd see working against what here, but again gut says that one nasty fatal-ish thing should land before Hiro and Jean's opponents can start getting turns, and at that point whoever is left isn't soloing.
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga): See Snow? I think.
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World): Pamela being vulnerable to elemental physicals feels like a pretty fair reflection to me, and with that in mind Cthulhu can go first and OHKO her. That's game.

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Pyro

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 11:17:11 PM »
Can Elena delay Robo's turn with a critical for SBE to see play?

What enemies in MK can hit Pamela's def stat through the phys immunity? I think Raiden Charge is the elemental physical attack on the PC end? Does that also make it ignore evade/blocking? Pamela with a vulnerability to elemental tinged physicals is a lot worse, and I would like info before dropping her a peg.

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 07:56:57 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
I guess.  Meh.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

Groudon and Exeggcutor (Pokémon) vs Zelos Wilder and Sheena Fujibayashi (Tales of Symphonia)
The 2 Pokes go first and gang up on the slightly frail Sheena and kill her.  I don't think Zelos OHKOs anyone (especially since lightning/electric damage is crap vs. Ground IIRC) and it's a 1v2.
Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Concussion Sword is MT?  Sheesh.

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 09:52:46 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4) - Does an Alena crit kill Arnaud with all his blockers on?
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger) - I have slightly more respect for the stat downs.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

Groudon and Exeggcutor (Pokémon) vs Zelos Wilder and Sheena Fujibayashi (Tales of Symphonia)
Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) - Isn't Concussion Sword GT? Or rather 'MT in an area'? Maybe I'm crazy.
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga)
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 03:28:41 AM »
Concussion Sword is full MT.

The only stat that matters for surviving DQ4 critical hits is HP, and Arnaud's is at worst slightly below average after any level hits. A single hit of Alena's critical does 65% to average, and getting in two hits on a turn that includes a critical (either a doublecrit or a crit + a normal hit) is incredibly rare, sub-1% chance, and that's assuming that the DQ4 critical hit check is made before the evade check, which is something we aren't sure about.

Grandia delay is a weird thing. Both sides can do it in-game, so I'm not sure how much credit I feel like giving it. If you let Grandia characters delay others without letting them be naturally delayed themselves they definitely improve, particularly the bosses; Xorn isn't too far from locking down a solo PC without appropriate delay-reducing skills indefinitely in-game, for an example I am particularly familiar with. Thus far I have just been ignoring the mechanic entirely.

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 04:44:21 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- ID. I don't think I allow Lone Wolf here either which hurts Raquel to boot.
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- Likely agree with Elf's breakdown. Raze runs out of gas, even with Blessing of Light in play.
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)- Kneejerk.
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)- Too much pressure.

Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- Yeah, MT status wrecks this team.
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga)- KaBOOM.
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)
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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2015, 03:42:03 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV) vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium) vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II) vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)

Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue) vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II) vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga)
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Doubles Tournament: Round 2
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2015, 06:57:06 PM »
Kiryl and Alena (Dragon Quest IV)- i vs Raquel Applegate and Arnaud G. Vasquez (Wild ARMs 4)- iiiii
Wren and Demi (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)- iiiii vs Razeluxe Meitzen and Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Millenia and Elena (Grandia II)- ii vs Robo and Ayla (Chrono Trigger)- iiiii
Yuri and Karin (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Freyjadour and Lyon (Suikoden V)- iiiiii

Groudon and Exeggcutor (Pokémon)- i vs Zelos Wilder and Sheena Fujibayashi (Tales of Symphonia)
Hiro and Jean (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue)- iiiii vs Eirika and Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- i
Riou and Jowy (Suikoden II)- iii vs Lang and Sharon (Legaia 2: Dual Saga)- i
Vayne Aurelius and Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- i vs Cthulhu and Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)- iii
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