Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1  (Read 1267 times)

Nephrite

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New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« on: September 30, 2014, 01:27:11 AM »
So, the new Dungeon looks something like this. You are free to submit teams based on the original Dungeon criteria, but you're likewise welcome to submit thematic teams based on any criteria you can come up with. The only requirement I have for submitted teams based on those criteria is no High Godlikes and to be considerate with unranked folks. To get the ball rolling, I've cribbed a few interesting teams from Snowfire's tournaments with permission. I have no idea how balanced any of these are, but I thought it might help illustrate the concept. I hope to at least create more interesting fights eventually (probably multi-part fights) but I wanted to at least push this idea out before I delayed it any more. :)


Team Orange - Wakka (FFX), Rhys (FEs), Citrine (XS3), Alena (DQ4)
Team Pink - Lightning (FF13), Rika (PS4), Nel (SO3), Seraphitia (XG)
Summoners - Rydia, FF5 Summoner, FFT Summoner [female], Garnet
White Mages - FF3 Devout, Rosa, FF5 White Mage, Eiko
Time Mages- FF5 Time Mage (No Reset), FFT Time Mage [female], Tidus

Team Orange vs. Sephiroth
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth
Summoners vs. Sephiroth
White Mages vs. Sephiroth
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC)
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon
Summoners vs. Ghaleon
White Mages vs. Ghaleon

Team Orange vs. Belial
Team Pink vs. Belial
Time Mages vs. Belial
Summoners vs. Belial
White Mages vs. Belial

Team Orange vs. Lady
Team Pink vs. Lady
Time Mages vs. Lady
Summoners vs. Lady
White Mages vs. Lady

Team Orange vs. Loki
Team Pink vs. Loki
Time Mages vs. Loki
Summoners vs. Loki
White Mages vs. Loki

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 02:06:21 AM »
Any guidelines for scaling the opponent bosses?

EDIT: Actually looking at the matchups I assume the boss HPs are meant to be not much scaled down if at all, or many of them just get badly blitzed out. Okay, voting to come then~
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 02:12:06 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Nephrite

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 02:32:46 PM »
I would prefer if they were not scaled down, indeed.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 04:17:08 AM »
Team Orange vs. Sephiroth- Team Orange is pretty lolzy bad in this.
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth- Team Pink at least features 2 revivers and another healer (Except I look up Rika and no revival). Against Sephiroth, don't think it matters. Goes first, bye to Rika. They can revive...etc, but Seph is hitting those doubles pretty quickly. On the next one he'll kill Rika and Lightning.
Summoners vs. Sephiroth- Garnet is dead first. The summoners have a lot of damage, but not enough to stop Sephiroth from getting turn 2...and thereby turn 3 due to doubling. So yeah, don't think a fourth attack will do it.
White Mages vs. Sephiroth- Fly+SuperNova
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth- Once FF5 Time Mage is OHKOed, Sephiroth has leisure to control the rest of the fight.
Moral of the story: Skewed PCs teams don't do well against 150% Speed with OHKO to both defenses (and the physical also being ITE I believe).

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC)- ID Alena, lol.
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon- When I thought the team had two revivers, this seems more possible. But Ghaleon has like 12 PC HP, and halves physicals. It's still a possible match though. Evade/Defense up to keep Lightning alive and hope that her ID protection never fails. If Lightning does fall, things just slow down a lot since she's the only magic damage source...that can live through a Ghaleon turn at least. I'm voting for Team Pink here because there were a few other bosses where they felt close where everyone else was just auto-wiped out.
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon- Lol not at all
Summoners vs. Ghaleon- Better than Time Mages at least
White Mages vs. Ghaleon- They don't really have anything that stands well against Ghaleon's physical, but it's not like he can kill them all at once. Granted, his physical can kill 2 a turn, but with his speed, that may be okay for the team.

Team Orange vs. Belial- At least...Citrine has MT and is immune to 4D pocket! On the minus side, Citrine's MT is baaaad and once Alena is picked off, this team forgets about damage anyways.
Team Pink vs. Belial- The only team where I didn't just straight away mark this as a loss. They have MT variants, healing...but it doesn't matter, because the ability to spam 4D pocket generally means teams of PCs lose here unless they are super fast and damaging.
Time Mages vs. Belial- Fun with 4D Pocket
Summoners vs. Belial- If there is one thing Summoners are good it, it's consistent blistering MT damage. But...Belial has like 2.65 PC HP. The other problem is that Summoners tend to be slow, so Belial can have a good number in the 4D pocket at once (unless she can't use it against multiple PCs). She uses the first one on Rydia, then Garnet. I don't think the other two have the damage to make this work after that.
White Mages vs. Belial- Same as Summoners.

Team Orange vs. Lady- Lollollol
Team Pink vs. Lady- To be fair, Lady has a variety of nasty MT/AoE moves and can use them in combo conjunction for pain. The amazing thing about Lady is the DL is that...her greatest strength is how damn good she is against a team.
Time Mages vs. Lady-
Summoners vs. Lady
White Mages vs. Lady

For Sanity, and to give these teams a better chance, I'm assuming that Indiscriminate will generally hit someone twice, but Loki can't intelligently pick who that is.
Team Orange vs. Loki- Where team Orange just hides in shame
Team Pink vs. Loki- Loki uses his first turn, kills Seraphita and damages everyone else. The one problem is that one subsequent turns are going to kill either Rika orLightning (Nel lives on average thanks to elemental resistance). My gut reaction is that they do a decent job, but just don't quite get there.
Time Mages vs. Loki- Grah, man, even with a better general setup for this, they are not exactly winning cleanly. But...Loki can't kill FF5 Time Mage in a turn. Haste and Slow...should do it.
Summoners vs. Loki- Rydia never ever gets turns (constantly OHKOed). Garnet has to focus on healing, so no revival. The problem is that Loki is probably going to kill someone on the 2nd turn with Indisc (Unless he gets Garnet). Now...Summoners tend to have great MT damage, but their ST isn't amazing (if not bad). If they had the bigger ST damage spells, this might work, but as is I think Loki kills them off while keeping them damaged.
White Mages vs. Loki- This level of healing+revival+Eiko resisting a lot of his damage.

Team White Mages 2-3
Team Pink 1-4
Team Time Mages 1-4
Team Summoners 0-5
Team Orange 0-5
...into the nightfall.

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 01:38:43 PM »
Belial has a limit of 4D Pocketing two PCs at once at most. So she has to deal with a few of them the hard way regardless.
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superaielman

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 01:56:51 PM »
Team Orange vs. Sephiroth- Status. Citrine can't handle Seph by herself.
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth- Status again!
Summoners vs. Sephiroth- Strong kneejerk. They have enough status curing to handle that part of the game, and Seph's too ST focused to really threaten here.
White Mages vs. Sephiroth- See Summoners.
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth- Tidus is useless here, which is probably doom.

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC)- Team Orange is not suited to slugging down bosses.
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon- I don't think team pink can revive. Whoof.
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon- Withstand a horrible early blitz, outlast.
Summoners vs. Ghaleon=Ghaleon kind of evil in this format.
White Mages vs. Ghaleon- I think. Fate Storm+damage (Or even double fate storm if I allow that) puts an awful lot of pressure on.

Team Orange vs. Belial- ST damage vs Belial. Citrine might be able to slug this out but I think she was ST more than MT.
Team Pink vs. Belial
Time Mages vs. Belial- Strong kneejerk.
Summoners vs. Belial- MT damage focus.
White Mages vs. Belial- I think.

Team Orange vs. Lady-No.
Team Pink vs. Lady- Lost Progress makes me not have to think about this.
Time Mages vs. Lady0 Too much offense. This team is made of paper if you get a turn against them.
Summoners vs. Lady- I think she can blitz?
White Mages vs. Lady- Here too.

Team Orange vs. Loki- Team Orange is shameful.
Team Pink vs. Loki- Too much physical offense on this team.
Time Mages vs. Loki- I don't think Loki can kill anyone off turn 1,  yeah.
Summoners vs. Loki- Too much magic.
White Mages vs. Loki- Too much elemental resistance and revival.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 03:05:09 PM »
Team Orange vs. Sephiroth - Team Orange is simply woeful against bosses.
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth - Sephiroth is also horrifying against PCs, especially unscaled. Fly alone reams the vast majority of this team's offense.
Summoners vs. Sephiroth - Not really.
White Mages vs. Sephiroth - Way too much pressure with the status and speed.
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth - Yeah. Sephiroth being unscaled makes this pretty simple.

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC) - lulz.
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon - Only one reviver. This just doesn't pan out against Ghaleon's obscene unscaled HP.
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon - Ghaleon withstands something like 5-6x PC HP worth of damage in this format no sweat. Fate Storm x2 spells utter doom once he gets a turn to boot.
Summoners vs. Ghaleon - nope.jpg
White Mage vs. Ghaleon - Actually, given the gross amount of revival, resource depth and dispel here, I think they can pull this off. Ghaleon can't kill more than two PCs a turn and he needs to.

Team Orange vs. Belial - Almost entirely ST-centered offense against unscaled Distortion, yeah that's gonna work.
Team Pink vs. Belial - 4D Pocket Rika, guarantee a double. 4D Pocket Lightning, guarantee permanent death. Afterwards, it's just a matter of simple mopping, she lands an instant triple against the party remainders.
Time Mages vs. Belial - EDIT: Yeah, Slow turns this fight upside down.
Summoners vs. Belial - Pocketing Rydia and Garnet pretty much ensures doom. FF5 Summoner ain't about damage and FFT Summoner's offense is horrendously slow and owned by Distortion anyway.
White Mages vs. Belial - 4D Pocket+blitzing - and Distortion also brutalizes their offense.

Team Orange vs. Lady - Unscaled Lady in team matches. Open the gates of Niflheim.
Team Pink vs. Lady - At least half the party gets a turn before getting their faces melted off.
Time Mages vs. Lady - Lost Progress makes this not worth thinking about. She even outspeeds non-Tidus PCs.
Summoners vs. Lady - :lady:
White Mages vs. Lady - :lady:

Team Orange vs. Loki - Team Orange, dear god.
Team Pink vs. Loki - Loki has to rely on Indiscriminate to land lucky kills, since there's enough elemental spoiling here to make Extension Force a bad choice... but his effective durability against a party with so little magical offense is simply gross. He gets the time to make this work, especially with only one reviver in the team.
Time Mages vs. Loki - EDIT: Grah, Extension Force is only 66% PC HP damage? Yeeeeeeeeeah, no dice. Loki can't reliably kill FF5 TM and casting Reflect on her trivializes the threat of Indiscriminate. Quick'd Meteor x3 should be enough to kill Loki on average.
Summoners vs. Loki - Hm. Garnet goes first and... I'm not sure what can she do to save Rydia from getting OHKOed. Shell gets her killed by Extension Force, Protect means Carnage Anthem. And by turn two... if FF5 Summoner doesn't revive Rydia, Loki Indiscriminates and someone (possibly more than one) dies unless he lands unlucky hits on Garnet. If she does, lol Carnage Anthem and very little leeway was made. Casting Carbuncle also doesn't work, since it shuts down Garnet's healing. Yeah, not really working all that well.
White Mages vs. Loki - Weirdly, Eiko causes a lot more trouble to Loki than Garnet does due to MT revival that doubles as (crappy) offense. The oodles of MT healing also work wonders here and Loki OHKOs nothing here without Indiscriminate. The sheer stalling potential is insurmountable at some point.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 07:14:51 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Random Consonant

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 04:39:39 PM »
Summoners vs. Sephiroth
White Mages vs. Sephiroth
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth - oh dear these teams aren't really cut out for this

Time Mages vs. Ghaleon - Oh dear MkII.
Summoners vs. Ghaleon - Oh dear the inexplicably advanced prototype.
White Mages vs. Ghaleon - Sandbagging.

Time Mages vs. Belial - Or maybe it is.  Slow may not necessarily be enough, but Slow+Delay might be.
Summoners vs. Belial - oh no MT wait FFT summoner sucks here and pocketing Rydia and Garnet pretty much solves the fight.
White Mages vs. Belial - Oh dear the custom model

Time Mages vs. Lady
Summoners vs. Lady
White Mages vs. Lady - oh dear the mass production version

Time Mages vs. Loki - Yeah sounds about right.
Summoners vs. Loki - Rydia getting constantly OHKO'd sucks a bit too much for the team.
White Mages vs. Loki - Has pretty much everything required to handle Loki.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 01:24:16 AM by Random Consonant »

SnowFire

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 12:54:33 AM »
Team Orange vs. Sephiroth Fly-Supernova.  (but but WAKKA BEATS FLYERS)
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth Fly-> Supernova.
Summoners vs. Sephiroth - Fly->Supernova, although Sephy gets hurt a lot on his way there.  What's the status-curing the Summoners have, super?  Been awhlie, I forget their exact options...   I suspect Summoners lose unless they have quite a bit of it and it's MT, though.  EDIT: Sephy it is.
White Mages vs. Sephiroth - These folks have all the healing & status curing though, definitely! 
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth - Sephy's ST status game vs. FF5 TM should save him before he eats too much pain.

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC)
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon
Summoners vs. Ghaleon - No 2x Fate Storm from me, but it hardly matters.  EDIT: I'll buy Elf's hype, sure, Ghaleon spams 2x Hell Wave and gets healed off by Fairy or something.
White Mages vs. Ghaleon - Except these guys, who shrug off everything Ghaleon throws at 'em and are faster and have ludicrous MP reserves.

Team Orange vs. Belial
Team Pink vs. Belial - Belial spends half her turns keeping Lightning & Rika bottled up but that's fine vs. Sera & Nel.
Time Mages vs. Belial - If FF5 got even one turn I'd consider voting TMs, but she doesn't.  EDIT: While normally I'd "normalize" WA4 buff / debuff / 4D Pocket turn durations to be as they are in-game, fair point that hated Quick Hitting Tidus is hugely over the scale in making 4D Pocket suck, and Delay Buster if FF5 pops back up is pretty cool.  Sure I'll buy it.
Summoners vs. Belial - See Pink, half-turns Belial still beats FF5 & FFT Summoners.
White Mages vs. Belial - This takes awhile but as long as Eiko & Rosa are bottled while Belial spams the Distortion, the other WMs slowly deplete their MP (be it on Holy or healing) then lose.

Lady vs. Field.  TMs can't finish their blitz.  White Mages...  may sort of have a shot, as a reminder Lady is more "large GT" than full MT so probably 1 WM survives her initial burst, but there's so much pressure afterward that I don't think it matters.  Tidus, even with buffs out, can still use Delay Buster though?!  Even though most FFX bosses immune it?!  (Hard Hit / Red Bounce type effects work just fine on Lady & the Umbral, and that's vaguely sorta comparable?)

Team Orange vs. Loki
Team Pink vs. Loki - Yeah, he has time to get a lucky Lightning-kililng Indiscriminate.
Time Mages vs. Loki
Summoners vs. Loki - FF5's Phoenix wasn't a full revive?  Yeah that's trouble.  Still, Garnet spams MT healing every turn & FF5 spams Phoenix every turn, while FFT Summoner sloooowly tries to win?  Forces Loki to use Extension Force / Carnage Anthem at least.  Although Garnet does drain her MP faster than you'd think doing this...  anyway, the summoners definitely can't blitz, unfortunately for them.  Abstain.
White Mages vs. Loki
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 12:11:47 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 06:11:30 AM »
Team Orange - Wakka (FFX), Rhys (FEs), Citrine (XS3), Alena (DQ4)
Team Pink - Lightning (FF13), Rika (PS4), Nel (SO3), Seraphitia (XG)
Summoners - Rydia, FF5 Summoner, FFT Summoner [female], Garnet
White Mages - FF3 Devout, Rosa, FF5 White Mage, Eiko
Time Mages- FF5 Time Mage (No Reset), FFT Time Mage [female], Tidus


Team Orange vs. Sephiroth: No revival here, so one-shot each non-Citrine opponent in turn (Alena has too much HP, maybe Wakka if you respect Seph damage less than I do, but whatever, Rhys goes first and then Pale Horse eats the others). Citrine is easily outslugged.
Team Pink vs. Sephiroth: Lightning's the only reviver, so one-shot her first then start picking off the rest. Rika's speed manipulations help but no MDef buffing makes this a lost cause..
Summoners vs. Sephiroth: The only status curing here is Garnet's ST Esuna (and Rydia's Frog as a specific counter to Pale Horse)? Not seeing the hype really. Anyway, one-shot Garnet/FF5 (they can stall a bit with revival but not really thanks to speed difference) then pick off FFT and Rydia? They do hurt him pretty bad during this time though, so it's a decent fight. But eh Summoner has an MT limit and I don't think Rydia hits THAT hard against unscaled HP.
White Mages vs. Sephiroth: Round robin Esuna and revival makes Supernova the only threat, and only a 39% chance of hitting two people isn't that great especially with FF5/Rosa blocking silence AND confuse.
Time Mages vs. Sephiroth: Eh sure. Seph's vulnerability to slow makes this definitely worth thinking about, but I think I agree with the consensus.

Team Orange vs. Ghaleon (SSC): Fate Storm Alena, fight over.
Team Pink vs. Ghaleon: Rika can put a big downer on Ghaleon's offence but unfortunately her team isn't ID-protected outside Nel. Lightning can go for protection but it's not going to be enough. This team can output a bunch of damage certainly (Ghaleon so slow, hasted pink team so fast, he wastes turns trying to kill Lightning) then... actually, wait. He's never kiling Saner'd Nel -ever-. (Hell Wave + Chaos Shield every three of her turns is his best he can do. He might have been able to outstall her if Nel's allies won't do loads of damage in the early stages of the fight.
Time Mages vs. Ghaleon: Team TM probably didn't need Reset banned in this setting, they can't stall so they have to blitz and a Reset ban hurts them some at that.
Summoners vs. Ghaleon: So Golem/Carbuncle combo wrecks Ghaleon entirely? Like, all I'd see going through it is Hell Wave (and Siphon Soul?). So resources are the only way Summoners lose. Which are a definite concern, although FF5 can restore everything on her allies with Phoenix, and Rydia/Garnet's resource pools are fairly deep? Mmm. Could math this out to find differently, for now not inclined to.
White Mages vs. Ghaleon: Straightforward.

Team Orange vs. Belial: Pocket Alena, Distortion, kill Rhys and Wakka over the next couple rounds... should handle this.
Team Pink vs. Belial: Prevent Rika from getting turns, since she has the speed alteration AND the main MT, cut down the rest. Lightning should die to two Tank Drops which helps.
Time Mages vs. Belial: Tidus slows her immediately, but she does get one turn before anyone else. I guess she has to pocket FF5 TM or die. At this point FFT and Tidus get more turns, FFT uses Haste and Tidus now at 12x normal speed with Quick Hit (tempered to ~4.5-5x against Belial) unleashes a barrage of Quick Hits, maybe ending with Delay? I dunno. Due to the way 4D Pocket works (set chance to come back after each turn anyone gets), I feel like FF5 TM is going to reappear and that will be terrifying and she comes close to killing in one turn.
Summoners vs. Belial: Pocket the Golem-users, blitz the rest yeah I think so, even with the MT (and I would see FFT piercing the distortion for what it's worth).
White Mages vs. Belial: Yeah nope, it's Summoners without the MT offence.

Team Orange vs. Lady: They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say: nice try.
Team Pink vs. Lady: Easier than finding a penny in a parking lot.
Time Mages vs. Lady: Talk about all show and no go, huh?
Summoners vs. Lady: The outcome was decided even before the battle began.
White Mages vs. Lady: Pick a god and pray.

(Serious analysis: Lady MT OHKOs everyone who isn't Citrine and maybe Alena, is immune to Slow, and can't be buffed against. Nobody has a chance. She's ridiculously broken in PC team fights if given unscaled HP.)

Team Orange vs. Loki: The biggest things Orange has are some status which hasn't translated to this format at all, and physical damage from Alena which isn't great against Loki. Rhys is Rhys and is easily OHKOed by Extension Force.
Team Pink vs. Loki: Pink's healing could be better (Lightning only restores 30%, Nel only 60%, Rika is full or goes for weaker, costlier MT). Still, the turnsplit is big so that helps a lot. Carnage Anthem seems like Loki's main strategy here, to wear people down... or he can try to kill Lightning with Indiscriminate, though that will take a while (needs 2-3 spells to land on her depending on which ones... mm, almost certainly three actually, so that's a 5% chance... yeah not good enough with the turnsplit. Carnage Anthem is still good, though... OHKOs Seraphita now that I bother to check (though Lightning can revive her immediately while tossing like 12% healing on someone else!). Nel and Rika will get 3+ actions every Loki turn and between them can fully patch someone up (even leaving a spare action). Seraphita gets an attack off every round, Lightning every other round or so, Nel every other round or so? So that's somewhat under PCHP every round. Loki's like... I dunno, 7 or so? I think pink's resources can hold out. Good fight.
Time Mages vs. Loki: Tidus opens with Hastega, FFT uses Slow, Loki can't OHKO FF5, so she gets like seven turns, which is enough to blow all her MP on Meteors. Yeah.
Summoners vs. Loki: Loki probably just OHKOs Rydia / 2HKOs everyone else with Carnage Anthem (element even FF9 misses!). If the team wants to revive Rydia they also need to heal, and this involves using either Phoenix5 or FairyT... and actually FairyT doesn't heal enough here, FFT Summoner will be lucky not to be OHKOed herself, so Phoenix5 it is which is super-draining on resources, they can't do this for long. So the only option is to leave Rydia dead, which leads to scarier Indiscriminates (Carbuncle could neuter this, except it means the team can't use Curaga any more so get screwed by Great Magic). FF5 and FFT both get 2HKOed so one will die almost every round. I guess Garnet can revive one but they're both below average speed so this really isn't working without Phoenix spam, again.
White Mages vs. Loki: Eiko resists most things that aren't Carnage Anthem, don't think Loki gets many OHKOs, and Shell gets up quickly to neuter Indiscriminate. Straightforward.

Lady 5-0
Belial 4-1
Sephiroth 4-1
Ghaleon 2-3
Loki 2-3

White Mages 3-2
Team Pink 2-3
Time Mages 2-3
Summoners 1-4
Team Orange 0-5
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 01:48:52 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 07:13:37 PM »
You see Carbuncle getting Fate Storm, Elfboy? I kneejerked against it, which is why I voted Ghal against Summoners. Regardless, good point about Belial being vulnerable to Slow. Changing my vote there.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 07:35:15 PM »
Well, White Dragon Protect gets it... though that doesn't say much. It's a fairly arbitrary judgement call of course, but FF5 Carbuncle actually gets quite a lot of non-PC magic (unlike say WA reflect) so something like Fate Storm seems reasonable. With special bonus tiebreak points for the fact that Fate Storm is really not a big deal at all in-game (ohnoes, 80% of the time Jessica just full-lifes the target).

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 08:15:48 PM »
Quote
At this point FFT and Tidus get more turns, FFT uses Haste and Tidus now at 12x normal speed with Quick Hit (tempered to ~4.5-5x against Belial)

How is Tidus 12x normal speed when FFT Haste is only 1.5x, that should be 9x tempered to somewhere over 3x unless I'm mistaken or missing something.  I mean this is probably still reasonable because yeah looking at things the number of bosses vulnerable to slow and delay are pretty much overlapping (as opposed to what I assumed) so no reason to doubt Belial's susceptibility to Delay Buster plus 4D Pocket working how it does, but still.

(Also I'd probably want to ask whether Neph considers Sonic Steel kosher for this before actually switching my vote but that's just me and I perhaps assumed it wasn't)

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2014, 08:30:25 PM »
Quote from: Elfboy
Well, White Dragon Protect gets it... though that doesn't say much. It's a fairly arbitrary judgement call of course, but FF5 Carbuncle actually gets quite a lot of non-PC magic (unlike say WA reflect) so something like Fate Storm seems reasonable. With special bonus tiebreak points for the fact that Fate Storm is really not a big deal at all in-game (ohnoes, 80% of the time Jessica just full-lifes the target).

Yeah, I don't even consider it unreasonable at all (and you're entirely right, if you do see that working, Ghaleon gets utterly walled). Just sorta surprised me a little bit, since I'm used to FF Reflect being rather limited.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 11:22:00 PM »
And yeah, was thinking of FFX/FF5 haste being 2x, so it's only 9x for Tidus. That makes things a bit trickier certainly, could switch my vote back. It's close regardless.

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Nephrite

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 06:43:22 PM »
I mostly assumed things were the same from the tournaments the participants were taken from and most people see SS as being legal for Tidus, so I can't really ban it even if I don't find it 100% supportable.

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2014, 12:04:08 AM »
The team's already down a member and already has one of its tricks banned (Reset) so nerfing it further just seems mean. :(

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Re: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon 1
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2014, 01:50:00 AM »
True enough! You're right, I probably didn't need to ban Reset. I'm not sure it changes much, though.