Final Fantasy 1: Soul of Chaos (PCs)

[Meeplelard]

Doing this with SoC equips.

Only allowing usual standard store boughts and such. HOWEVER, I am not allowing the randomly generated SoC items UNLESS they are absolutly unique (or if 2 people can use it, and its obsolete for one person) Basically, 2 if the item is a 100% drop from a boss (the Genji Glove from Gilgamesh (?) for example), and 1 if its randomly generated.

Note: I am listing Item casts simply for those who allow them. So yeah, don't yell at me for doing that <_<
Note 2: Should be brought up that equipment and spell resitsacnes do NOT stack. So White Wizard casting Nulblaze on Self w/ a White Robe yields no desirable effects. This is why it might seem like I'm ignoring some spells.
Note 3: Critical hits are checked for each HIT. Hence, when I say its critical hit rate, it means Critical Rate for each HIT, hence why damage won't just be critical rate * damage or what not. Also, Critical Rates are over 200%, not 100%, assuming this is like the original, so hence why the values look smaller than normal (I made the adjustments already, IOWs)

I'm assuming 20 defense for enemies, as that's kind of in the middle of all enemies in the Sky Tower and the final dungeon, nixing bosses.

Believe these are at Level 50, and  here are what each stat means!

HP: Obvious
MP: More Obviousness
Str: Base for attack. 2 Points of this = 1 Point of attack, I believe.
Agl: Base for hit and # of hits.
Int: Effects Magic damage and healing.
Atk: Base for physical damage
Def: How good you are at taking physical damage.
Eva: How good you are at dodging stuff.  This stat is *NOT* literal, as FF1 Evade works in a weird way (the values being over 100% should hint that)

Knight:

Ragnarok
Aegis Shield
Genji Helm
Dragon Mail
Protect Ring (Genji Gloves)

HP: 956
MP: 85
Str: 39 (46)
Agl: 31 (34)
Int: 12 (22)
Atk: 78
Def: 75
Eva: 138 (151)

Resists Fire, Ice and Lightning due to Armor, Instant Death to his accessory, Stone and Poison due to his helmet (the Shield also resists Petrify, as does his accessory if he opts for Genji Glove)

Knight's magic defense is incredibly low. Its to the point where he takes about 1.5x to 2x the amount of damage that the mages do. Should be noted that status hits him far more often than the mages as well.

Abilities:
Attack: 8 hits of 97 damage, 776 total, 19.5% critical hit rate, 958 average
Cura: 90 Healing, 10 MP
Protect: Raises Defense by 8, 10 MP, stackable.
Blink: Raises evade by 80%, Stackable til 255% (whcih is basically physical immunity), 3 MP
Blindna: Cures Darkness, 3 MP
Silence: Inflicts Silence, 5 MP
Flare: 220 damage, Item cast from Ragnarok


Ninja:

Murasame
Ice Shield
Genji Helmet (Black Cowl)
Black Garb
Protect Ring (Genji Gloves)

Note: Flame Shield is identical to Ice shield in everyway, sans the element it resists, and he can use that if he pleases (coin tossed for which was default <_<?)

HP: 676
MP: 99
Str: 29 (35) (38 w/ Black Cowl)
Agl: 33 (38) (41 w/ Black Cowl)
Int: 14 (22)
Sta: 17 (22) (25 with Black Cowl)
Lck: 43
Atk: 67 (69)
Def: 69 (68) (70 (69) w/ Genji Gloves)
Eva: 158 (155) (171 (168) w/ Genji Gloves)

Resists Fire due to his shield (or ice, if he prefers), Stone and Poison due to his helmet (if Genji helmet), and Instant Death due to his ring (assuming Protect Ring, Genji Gloves resist Stone and Poison)

Ninja has the same Magic defense woes as the Knight.

Spells
Attack: 8 hits of 80 (83) damage, 640 (664) total, 25% critical hit rate, 841 (871) average
Haste: Doubles number of hits, 15 MP
Hasted Attack: 16 hits of 80 (83) damage, 1280 (1328) total, 25% critical hit rate, 1682 (1742) average
Temper: Adds 20 to Attack (estimate), 10 MP
Temper Physical: 8 hits of 110 (113) damage, 880 (904) total (double this if Hasted)
Temper x2 Physical: 8 hits at 140 (143) damage, 1120 (1144) total, (double this if hasted)
Protect: Adds 8 to Defense, Item Cast from Murasame.

Ninja does have attack magic...but the damage is so sad, its pretty much worthless always (example? Blizzara barely does over 100)

Ninja has the option of the Viking Axe (Its worthless for Knight all things considered. NOT worth the damage loss, and he has Blink anyway) which maxes out his Evade, essentially. Its a hefty damage loss (25 Power, Murasame is 50), though, still an option if only due to having Haste, and Temper
Ninja can also opt for Flame/Ice Armor (Doesn't matter, like the shields, they only differ by the element they protect against) for -6 to Defense, -8 Evade, and -10 Agility, but gains an extra elemental Resistance, should he need Fire and Ice resistance at the same time.

Master:

Arms
-----
-----
Power Vest
Protect Ring

HP:689
MP:0
Str: 27 (42)
Agl: 24 (25)
Int: 17
Atk: 60
Def: 50
Eva: 91

Resists Instant Death due to his Accessory

Like Ninja and Knight, Master takes a lot more from magic than the mages, and is status bait too.

Abilities:
Attack: 12 hits of 70 damage, 840 total, 50% Critical hit rate, 1380 average


Red Wizard

Lightbringer
Protect Cloak
Red Cap
Red Jacket
Protect Ring

Note: Yeah, I know Ninja can use Red Jacket too, but he doesn't really have a reason too (Stat boosts aren't worth the defense loss, Ice Armor resists Fire anyway), that, and I really pity the Red Wizard in armor anyway.

HP: 536 (670)
MP: 489
Str: 23 (39)
Agl: 27 (39)
Int: 32 (40)
Atk: 67
Def: 48
Eva: 143

Resists Instant Death due to his accessory, and Fire due to his Armor.

Red Wizard, unlike the above 3, takes magic much better, as well as status.

Abilities:
Attack: 8 hits of 80 damage, 640 total, 17.5% critical hit rate, 780 average
Firaga: 240 damage, Fire elemental, 30 MP
Blizzaga: 320 damage, Ice Elemental, 40 MP
Thundaga: 280 damage, Lightning Elemental, 35 MP
Curaga: 280 healing, 20 MP
NulShock: Reduces Lightning damage by 50%, 8 MP
Frost: Redues Ice damage by 50%, 8 MP
NulDeath: Resists Death, Mind, and Earth elemental attacks, 24 MP
Protera: Adds 12 to defense, 20 MP, stackable
Silence: Adds Silence status, 5 MP
Poisona: Cures Poison, 3 MP
Blink: Adds 80 to Evade, 3 MP, stackable to 255
Sleep: Inflicts Sleep, 3 MP
Temper: Adds 20 to Attack, 10 MP
Slowra: Decreases number of hits of an enemy to 1
Hold: Paralyze one enemy, 10 MP
Haste: Doubles amount of hits, 10 MP
Confuse: Adds Confuse status, 15 MP
Scourge: INstant Death, Poison elemental, 28 MP
Attack w/ Haste: 16 hits of 80 damage, 1280 Total, 17.5% Critical hit rate, 1560 average
Temper Physical: 8 hits of 110 damage, 880 total (double this if Hasted)
Temper x2 Physical: 8 hits at 140 damage, 1120 total, (double this if hasted)
Holy: 360 damage, Item Cast from Lightbringer

Red Wizard can opt for Deathbringer to item cast Rub, though, typically, its not needed (Scourge > it -_-)

White Wizard:

Rune Staff
Protect Cloak
Leather Cap
Light Robe
Protect Ring

HP: 701
MP: 640
Str: 20
Agl: 22
Int: 34 (49)
Atk: 35
Acc: 114
Def: 52
Eva: 88

Resists Instant Death due to her Accessory.

White Wizard takes a lot less from magic than the 3 "Fighting" classes do, and likewise, gets hit with status a lot less.

Abilities:
Attack: 4 hits of 32 damage, 128 total, 10% Critical hit rate, 149 average
Curaja: Full Healing, 35 MP
Protera: Adds 20 to defense, 20 MP, stackable
Holy: 440 damage, 40 MP
NulAll: Halves all elemental magic damage and status hit rates, 40 MP
Blink: Raises evade by 80%, 3 MP, stackable up to 255
Silence: Inflicts Silence, 50% Hit rate
Poisona: Heals Poison, 3 MP
Dispel: Removes Status and Elemental resistances

She can opt for the War Hammer (usable by Knight and Ninja, its TOTALLY worthless on both), however, the damage boost is not worth the INT loss, typically. She can also use White Robe for -11 to defense and -5 to INT in exchange for gaining Fire Resitsance. She can item cast Healra from the Rune Staff, but the healing is minor, so its not exactly something that should come up often.

Black Wizard

Judgment Staff
Protect Cloak
Leather Cap
Gaia Gear
Protect Ring

HP: 478
MP: 781
Str: 16
Agl: 15
Int: 49 (59)
Atk: 33
Def: 52
Eva: 72

Resists Instant death due to his ring, and Stone and Earth elemental attacks from his Armor.

Has the same magic defense, in practice, as the red Wizard and White Wizard.

Abilities:
Attack: 5 hits at 29 damage, 145 total, 10% Critical hit rate, 169 average
Firaga: 360 damage, Fire elemental, 30 MP
Thundaga: 420 damage, Thunder elemental, 35 MP
Blizzaga: 460 damage, Ice Elemental, 40 MP
Flare: 550 non-elemental damage, 50 MP, Item cast via Judgment staff
(seems to be some sort of caps on how much INT affects damage)
Slowra: Decrease enemy attack to one, 15 MP
Hold: Adds Paralysis, 10 MP
Haste: Doubles number of hits, 10 MO
Quake: Instant Death, earth elemental, 32 MP
Break: Petrifies enemy, 30 MP
Saber: Raises attack and accurracy, unsure by how much.
Stop: Adds stop status, 30 MP
Sleepra: Inflicts sleep on one enemy 40% hit rate, 15 MP
Confuse: Adds Confusion, 15 MP
Scourge: Poison Instant Death on group 28 MP
Kill: Instant Death on one enemy, 40 MP
Temper: Raises attack by 20, 10 MP

Not going to list Hasted/Tempered physicals of the Black Wizard, since it'll take some time for them to be on par with Flare, and he typcially lacks the durability to get said time.

Black Wizard can opt for Black Robe over Gaia Gear for a loss of 11 defense, and gains Ice and Time Resistance over Stone and Quake.

Averages to come soon, in a bit of a rush right now, so be sharp or something <_<

Stats:
HP:
1. Knight 956
2. White Wizard 701
3. Master 689
4. Ninja 676
5. Red Wizard 536 (-> 670 w/ Red Cap)
6. Black Wizard 478
Average: 672 (695 w/ Red Cap)

MP:
1. Black Wizard 781
2. White Wizard 640
3. Red Wizard 489
4. Ninja 99
5. Knight 85
6. Master 0
Average: 349 (418 w/out Master)

Agility:
1. Ninja 33 (-> 38 w/ Equips)
2. Knight 31 (-> 34)
3. Red Wizard 27 (-> 39)
4. Master 24 (-> 25)
5. White Wizard 22
6. Black Wizard 15
Average: 25 (29 w/ Equips)

Defense:
1. Knight 75
2. Ninja 69
3t. White Wizard 52
3t. Black Wizard 52
5. Master 50
6. Red Wizard 48
Average: 57

Evade:
Note: Doing this just to show WHY you can't take those evade stats literally. Reminder that 255 Evade is basically physical immunity.
1. Ninja 158
2. Red Wizard 143
3. Knight 138
4. Master 91
5. White Wizard 88
6. Black Wizard 72
Average: 115
Reminder: Knight and Ninja both have other equips they might consider to boost thier evade, this was just using "Default Set Up"

Optimal Average Damage (ignoring buffers):
1. Master 1380 (Physical)
2. Knight 958 (Physical)
3. Ninja 841 (Physical)
4. Red Wizard 780 (Physical)
5. Black Wizard 550 (Flare)
6. White Wizard 440 (Holy)
Average: 824

[superaielman]

Fiends notes! I didn't hold them against DoS's new areas. If you do that, just mentally flush every fiend after Lich, as none of them should get close to a 5HKO/have any HP/deserve to beat anyone who isn't puny ever.

Lich



"I will not be disturbed by mortal men. I am Lich, Fiend of Earth!"

1200 HP
Reduces physicals by 70%
Weak (50%) to Fire, and Anti Undead attacks
Immune to status, reduces Ice by 70%

PC stats:

Level 21
HP: 290
Average damage: 150

Physical- 25, 25% chance of status. Haste raises this to two hits and a 44% chance of Hold. Same as the NES version.

Fire 2, Bolt 2: 125
Ice 2: 150      
Sleepara: ST sleep. Useless.   
Hold: Stun, lasts several turn. High (80-95%) hit rate.

Notes: That defense is as good as it was in the NES version. You are however better equipped to deal with it thanks to Temper/haste spam being better. Lich is the only boss in the game to come out the same or ahead in DoS, as he has no scaling issues with the new equips and he just scrapes a 2HKO in this version. Low Heavy.

Marilith/Kary



"Those who oppose me shall burn in Hellfire!"

Level: 26

1400 HP

Reduces physicals by 80%
Reduces thunder, poison damage, and fire by 70%
Immunes ID
Reduces status by 50%

Average PC HP: 350

Physical: 210
Fire 2: 100, fire elemental
Hold: Stun, lasts several turn. High (80-95%) hit rate.

Average damage: 200

Notes: Unscaled physical from the NES version. What was once a pretty good 2HKO has been given the nerfstick. She still manages that 2HKO, but it's weak.The status weakness is notable in this version thanks to the higher levels; she really loathes 100% status which is all too common. Evasion is a problem as well, though she largely hits all but the inaccurate very well. Low Heavy; like Lich she can hang around in the division. Unlike Lich this is a step down from her NES/PSX forms, though not as bad as the beating Kraken and Tiamat take.

Kraken




"Fools! The dark depths shall be your tomb!"

1800 HP

Reduces physicals by: 70%
Reduces Fire and Earth by 70%
Reduces status by 35%
Immunes ID (Needs further testing. He isn't immune to all types but it would not work on him, period).

PC level: 36
Average PC HP: 500
Average damage: 300

Physical: 180 damage


Notes: Well then. Kraken ended up with better damage than I expected! The defense average going up hurt him a good deal, but not enough to push him down into the 4HKO range I was expecting. Defense is excellent and fire/earth are nice resists to have. STatus resistance is however not something Kraken does. Healers kick his ass as well, unless they really can't take physicals at all. High Light. Fighters are very common in light and he is good against them. *Flush* otherwise.


Tiamat



"May the image of Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, be the last to burn in your eyes!"

HP: 2400
Reduces physicals by 75%
Reduces Fire, Ice, Thunder, and Earth by 70%
Resists poison and stone by 50%
Immunes ID (Needs further testing.)

Thunder: 170
Blaze: 150
Poison: 120
Blizzard: 100
Physical: 100 damage


PC level: 42

PC HP: 580
Average damage: 500


Notes: Welp. You're seeing the impact of level 8 spells on the damage curve. That is bad for Tiamat's HP. What's worse is her damage being worse unscaled between the two versions. This is a bit of a problem! She does manage to break the 4HKO barrier and she spoils fighters! Much like Kraken, she'll do well enough... in Light.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

-Holy shit- DoS Tiamat has below 50% PC HP before defenses/resistances under my scaling. That's vaguely sad.

[superaielman]

It's worth noting that the damage figures I'm quoting are based on first turn damage and ignore buffs. Soooo yeah.

[Nephrite]

Get the DoS forms of the other bosses like Gilgamesh too!

[Meeplelard]

I should probably go through and look up reasonable, noteworthy equips for each of the bosses.

Naturally, Lich is unaltered, being before all the new stuff by definition.  I think Kotetsu gotten in Earthgift is somewhere between Mithril Sword and Icebrand in power, however, still significant cause Thief can use it (instead of being stuck with the Wyrmkiller/Coral Sword like in other versions, which is significantly weaker), so Kary's durability is relatively worse.  I don't think it effects Warrior or Red Mage's damage at this point, since I think at very least Icebrand is stronger, and both can use it (and I think the Flame Sword was a little stronger as well, so even if we're factoring a hypothetical Team of 6, both Red Mage and Warrior are covered...would have to look up exact stats.)

I know the Kikuichimonji gotten in Lava Ridge is bat shit insane for the time...I think it was stronger than the Sasuke's Katana, which says everything right there, or from a different perspective, a weapon that makes Kraken and Tiamat EVEN WORSE.  Usable by Ninja, Knight and...I think Red Wizard, but so no certain on that one.

Kraken gives you access to Murasame and Ragnarok, to weapons superior to Masamune, for Ninja and Knight respectively.  GRANTED, I wouldn't consider these a standard; both weapons are obnoxious to get ASAP, as Omega and Shinryu are just flat out better than anything else in the game, and are clearly intended to be fought later as a result.  Against Chaos? Yeah, fair game, but against Tiamat?  Not so much (ok, they can be taken out reasonably ASAP, but it requires high levels (which if you do the SoC Dungeons enough times to get EVERYTHING from bosses, you may have that) and a lot of patience, but...eh)

There's a few armor upgrades along the way as well.  Elven Mantles are relatively common in all dungeons, which makes Kary and Kraken's damage even worse (-_-), since this is a universal shield better than the Protect Cape, as well as stuff like the Bard Tunic gotten from...2 Headed Dragon?  one of the Earthgift Bosses, which ups the defense of one of the Mages, at least for that point.

[superaielman]

The extra levels you get matter more than the gear.  Kary is a light with DoS stuff and I don't even need to talk about how bad Kraken/Tiamat are.

[Meeplelard]

well, just looked it up, and a few things do stand out, based off bosses.

Kotetsu is inferior to both Flame Sabre and Ice Brand, but usable by Thief, while the other two are not, so it still gives a slight damage push to the "Hypothetical 6 Man Team" average, for Kary.  Its not going to matter by Kraken as Thief will have promoted by then, and can thus use stronger weapons, with or without SoCs.

Kikuichimonji is flat out better than everything but Excalibur and Masamune in the normal game...and its gotten after Kary.  Uh, yeah, do I really have to explan how emo this Kraken?  Note that TIamat actually isn't effected that much, cause Sunblade, Sasuke's Katana and Defender (this covers Ninja, Knight and Red Wizard) are all not far behind in power, so the damage boost is mild, contrast to Kotetsu which is significantly better than Wyrmkiller (Thief's best Non-SoC weapon pre-Promotion)

Braveheart is evidently better than I thought; somewhat less power than Kikuichimonji, but has a lot more accuracy, so its getting significantly more hits in (we're talking like 54 accuracy vs. 25 or so); granted, I wouldn't consider BOTH of these standard, since getting them requires 2 Lava Ridge run throughs, as one is Valvalis and the other is Rubicante, both of whom are in the same room, and you can only fight one per run.  Its still not a negligible boost against Kraken, but Kraken really doesn't need help to look pathetic.

If we factor in Extra levels, then yes, everything is screwed.  As you'd expect, your EVERYTHING becomes much higher.