Author Topic: Brigandine  (Read 1979 times)

Shale

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Brigandine
« on: August 27, 2008, 11:22:28 PM »
Compiled by Gourry.

Super's commisioning me to make a Brigandine topic, so here we are. This is going by distinctions that super himself came up with. I'm not sure that I agree with them (I generally don't like taking things on uneven experience), but they do reflect in game performance, to a point. I did this because there probably needs to be a Brigandine topic sometime, and it's really not hard to change stuff around, if need be.

Here's what super wants, basically:
Monsters: Level 20
Non Plot Knights: Starting Level + 10 Levels.
Plot Knights: Starting Level + 20 Levels.
Rulers: Level 30, except Lance and Lyonesse (who start out much lower), who are at level 25.

A note about damage: Physical damage is simply the attacker's ATK - the Defender's DEF. AGI affects evasion and hit rates. INT is the main factor in magic damage. Magic damage is the
(spell's base spell power + Caster's INT) - Target's INT.

I'm taking damage on a relatively low defense monster, the Roc. It has 100 DEF and 40 INT. They're also elementally neutral, which is mostly meant to avoid any undue elemental insanity. OMG.

And yes, super wants me to do everyone and everything in the game. WTF?

New Almekia
---
Level 25 Lance.
1 Red.
HP: 820
MP: 278
STR: 107
INT: 99
AGI: 103
ATK: 294
DEF: 139

Physical: 194 damage

Spells
---
Flame: 179 fire damage. 68 MP.
Heal: Heals 244 damage. 65 MP.
Geno-Flame: 149 fire damage to a wider range (it's multitarget, I suppose) 166 MP.

Level 30 Gereint
HP: 755
MP: 166
STR: 112
INT: 75
AGI: 97
ATK: 317 (+8 from Tora)
DEF: 137

Physical: 217 damage.

Level 30 Meleagant
HP: 793
MP: 166
RunePow: 270
STR: 111
INT: 68
AGI: 90
ATK: 307
DEF: 135

Physical: 207 physical.

Spells
---
Curse: 198 damage. 108 MP.
Weakness. Bah. 66 MP.

Level 30 Halley (I found my own Halley, yay!)
HP: 740
MP: 252
STR: 104
INT: 76
AGI: 110
ATK: 309 (+16 from Gungnir)
DEF: 141

Physical: 209

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 230.
FOG: OMGOMGOMG!!!11!

Caerleon
---
Level 30 Cai
1 Red. 1 Red. 1 Green.
HP: 531
MP: 585
STR: 66
INT: 119
DEF: 75
ATK: 192
DEF: 115

Physical: 92 damage

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 270 damage.
65 MP.
Flame: 199 fire damage. 68 MP.
Geno-Flame: 169 fire damage. 166 MP.
Thunder: 220 fire damage. 91 MP.
Geno-Thunder: 199 fire damage. 193 MP.
Exa-Blast: 280 fire damage. 152 MP.
Frost: Same as Flame, but it's ice. WTF? 68 MP.
Geno-Frost: Same as Geno-Flame, but it's ice. 166 MP.
Flight: In game, it adds mobility, but the flight status reduces ground damage by 80%. 90 MP.
Silent: Stops enemy spells. 50 MP.

Lv30 Dinadan
HP: 740
MP: 227
STR: 110
INT: 72
AGI: 96
ATK: 300
DEF: 142

Physical: 200

Leonia
---
Lyonesse
HP: 493
MP: 519
STR: 47
INT: 116
AGI: 95
ATK: 209
DEF: 121

Physical: 109 damage

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 270. 65 MP.
Cure: Heals statuses. 54 MP.
Divine Ray: 256 holy damage. 112 MP.
Charm: Err... Charms Enemy. Status testing is a bitch right now, so I won't have very many of them. 110 MP.
Protect: +30 to DEF. 61 MP

Level 30 Paternus
HP: 683
MP: 352
RunePow: 335
Rune Area: 5
STR: 90
INT: 107
AGI: 81
ATK: 262 (+8 from Gravity Mace)
DEF: 122

Physical: 152 damage

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 260 damage. 65 MP
Divine Ray: 247 damage. 112 MP.
Cure: Heals status. 54 MP

Iscalio
---
Level 30 Dryst
1 Red. 1 Black.
HP: 738
MP: 247
STR: 108
INT: 76
AGI: 109
ATK: 296
DEF: 143

Physical: 196 (344 with Power) damage

Spells
---
Meteor Doom: Cannot Use. 255 MP.
Curse: 206 dark damage. 108 MP.
Weakness: Halves target's ATK and DEF values. 66 MP.
Flame: 156 damage.
Power: Multiplies ATK stat by 1.5x. Lasts for one hit. 62 MP.

Iria
HP: 740
MP: 209
RunePow: 317
RuneArea: 5
STR: 100
INT: 77
AGI: 110
ATK: 291 (+6 from Black Spear)
DEF: 141

Physical: 191 damage

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 225 damage

Norgard
---
Level 30 Vaynard
HP: 808
MP: 345
STR: 117
INT: 100
AGI: 98
ATK: 314
DEF: 141

Physical: 214 damage

Spells
---
Frost: 180 ice damage. 68 MP.
Geno-Frost: 150 ice damage. 166 MP.
Fog: Lower's target's hit rate. 49 MP.

Fog really makes Vaynard a fearsome dueller...

*snicker*

Level 30 Guinglain
HP: 793
MP: 233
STR: 108
INT: 92
AGI: 93
ATK: 310 (+14 from Answeller)
DEF: 141

Physical: 210

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 250 damage. 65 MP.

Esgares
---
Level 30 Zemeckis
HP: 781
MP: 204
STR: 107
INT: 76
AGI: 82
ATK: 294
DEF: 139

Physical: 194 (341) damage

Spells
---
Geno-Thunder: 156 fire damage. 193 MP
Power: Multiplies ATK by 1.5x. 62 MP.

Level 30 Cador
HP: 722
MP: 292
STR: 103
INT: 79
AGI: 84
ATK: 291
DEF: 133

Physical: 191 damage.

Curse: 209 dark damage. 108 MP
Geno-Flame: 129 fire damage. 166 MP

Esclados
HP: 713
MP: 170
STR: 104
INT: 64
AGI: 100
ATK: 293
DEF: 138

Physical: 193

Gish
HP: 574
MP: 533
STR: 62
INT: 110
AGI: 83
ATK: 184
DEF: 120 (+8 from Dark Robe)

Physical: 84 damage.

Spells
---
Thunder: 220 fire damage. 91 MP.
Exa-Blast: 270 fire damage. 152 MP.
Frost: 190 ice damage.

Freelance Knights
---
Helrato
HP: 794
MP: 164
STR: 115
INT: 59
AGI: 89
ATK: 329 (+14 from Tyrhung)
DEF: 134

Physical: 229

Spells
---
Curse: 189 dark damage. 108 MP.
Weakness: Halves ATK and DEF.

Monsters (yes, these are included as well)
---
Lv20 Vampire Lord.
3 Black
HP: 655
MP: 161
STR: 77
INT: 31
AGI: 73
ATK: 234
DEF: 114
Special Attacks: Bat Attack
Spells: Weakness, Necro Rebirth

Physical: 134 damage.

Necro Rebirth is worthless in a duel.

Lv20 Death Needle
2 Red
HP: 491
MP: 0
STR: 82
INT: 19
AGI: 72
ATK: 234
DEF: 149

Physical: 134. The Death Needle sting can poison. Scary.

Lv20 Poseidon
3 Blue
HP: 610
MP: 102
STR: 89
INT: 63
AGI: 63
ATK: 258
DEF: 121

Physical: 158.

Its special abilities are only usable in the water.

Lv20 Lizard Guard
2 Blue.
HP: 641
MP: 70
STR: 97
INT: 52
AGI: 87
ATK: 264
DEF: 133

Physical: 164

Lv20 Phoenix
3 Red
HP: 740
MP: 201
STR: 110
INT: 58
AGI: 87
ATK: 300
DEF: 119
Regenerates 10% HP a turn

Physical: 200 damage

The Phoenix has a special attack where it heals everything in an area, which probably means it's healing the thing it's trying to kill. Never mind about that.

Lv20 Tiamat
2 Blue. 1 Black.
HP: 825
MP: 171
STR: 129
INT: 45
AGI: 58
ATK: 328
DEF: 124

Physical: 228.

Lv20 Mandrake (from super)
2 Green
HP: 805
MP: 0
STR: 68
INT: 15
AGI: 52
Attack: 207
Defense: 110

Physical: 107. Its physical can paralyze.

Lv20 Bronze Golem
None
HP: 740
MP: 0
STR: 104
INT: 0
AGI: 42
ATK: 298
DEF: 139

Physical: 198

Lv20 Bahamut
None
HP: 654
MP: 159
STR: 107
INT: 39
AGI: 93
ATK: 294
DEF: 126

Physical: 194

Lv20 High Centaur (from super)
HP: 544
MP: 0
STR: 92
INT: 57
AGI: 101
ATK: 242
DEF: 110

Physical: 132

Lv20 HolyGriff
2 White
HP: 643
MP: 0
STR: 112
INT: 53
AGI: 87
ATK: 294
DEF: 119

Physical: 194

Lv20 Salamander/Fafnir (same stats)
3 Red
HP: 785
MP: 150
STR: 120
INT: 60
AGI: 58
ATK: 320
DEF: 129

Physical: 220

Lv20 Seraph
HP: 550
MP: 374
STR: 85
INT: 91
AGI: 89
ATK: 250
DEF: 129

Physical: 150

Spells
---
Heal: Heals 240 damage. 65 MP.
Cure: Cures status. 54 MP.
Divine Ray: 231 holy damage. 112 MP.

Fenrir
HP: 648
MP: 150
STR: 88
INT: 44
AGI: 95
ATK: 246
DEF: 116

Physical: 136

Lv20 Gigas/Titan
1 White. 1 Red. (1 Black. 1 Red)
HP: 694
MP: 261
STR: 128
INT: 63
AGI: 64
ATK: 321
DEF: 116

Physical: 221

Lv20 Satan
HP: 554
MP: 372
STR: 93
INT: 97
AGI: 95
ATK: 266
DEF: 131

Physical: 166 damage.

Curse: 227 dark damage

Lv20 Pegasus
HP: 530
MP: 213
STR: 76
INT: 80
AGI: 94
ATK: 212
DEF: 111

Physical: 112

Lv20 Nightmare
HP: 553
MP: 200
STR: 79
INT: 80
AGI: 88
ATK: 228
DEF: 114

Physical: 128

Spells
---
Weakness: Halves target's ATK and DEF.
Dimension: Teleports enemy away. Probably doesn't apply.

Missing: Lv20 Fairy, Lv20 Jinns
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

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Re: Brigandine
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 11:23:01 PM »
Minor elemental tests (mostly for the FAQ, but this has DL utility as well):

(ATK - DEF)*some number = damage. Some number depends on elements, and it's what I'm trying to figure out. This assumes physical attacks unless I state otherwise.

1. White Dragon (281 ATK, 125 DEF, 1 White, 1 Red) vs. Hellhound (207 ATK, 105 DEF, 1 Black)

WD: 176 [219]
(1.25)

Hellhound: 82 [100]
(1.22)

2. White Dragon (281 ATK, 125 DEF, 1 White, 1 Red) vs. Demon (207 ATK, 110 DEF, 2 Black)

WD: 171 [213]
(1.25)

Demon: 82 [109]
(1.33)

3. White Dragon (281 ATK, 125 DEF, 1 White, 1 Red) vs. Dryst (268 ATK, 135 DEF, 1 Black, 1 Red)

WD: [146] 151
(1.00)

Dryst: [143] 147
(1.00)

I chalk the differences here up to random variance.

4. Coel (196 ATK, 81 INT, 115 DEF, 2 White) vs Hellhound (207 ATK, 37 INT, 105 DEF, 1 Black)

Coel: 91 [122]
(1.34)

Hellhound: 92 [113]
(1.23)

Divine Ray (3 White): (81 - 37 + 180) = 224 [317]
(1.415)

5. Coel (196 ATK, 81 INT, 115 DEF, 2 White) vs. Demon (207 ATK, 79 INT, 110 DEF, 2 Black)

Coel: 115
(1.33)

Demon: 122
(1.326)

Divine Ray (3 White): (81 - 79 + 180) = 182 [257]
(1.412)

Conclusions: Elemental spheres deal damage in this fashion:

1: ~25% more
2: ~33% more
3: ~41% more

The element of the attacker/spell (in GE, spells have their own elemental properties) is the main factor in elemental damage bonuses. As shown with tests against the Hellhound (1 Black) and Demon (2 Black), the multiplier is applied whenever you hit an elemental weakness, but the damage does not increase even if the target has differing amounts of spheres in an element.

This means that more spheres in an element contribute more to offense than defense. Three spheres in a color increases damage by 41% against an opposing element, but it does not intensify the weakness for that element.

In the White Dragon (1 White, 1 Red) vs. Dryst (1 Black, 1 Red) case, the weaknesses caused by the white and black spheres were cancelled by the two reds.

I'll look into other elemental stuff (like same vs. same) after my finals.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

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Re: Brigandine
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 11:23:09 PM »
Project Z is essentially an effort to give people strong in the early game some credit rather than comparing them to endgame characters. All units were given 5000 experience. This is a rather arbitrary value, but it has some merit. For starters, it brings everyone below level 10 to their first promotion class. Also, consider that each battle won yields 200 experience. Combine this with any Knight kills (800 at least, 1200 for higher level knights), monster kills, and the Halo spell, 5000 seemed like it was a reasonable enough experience boost for all the classes.

Ideally, a similar universal experience boost would be given to everyone for endgame scaling purposes, but that sounds too much like work, and I hate it.

This considers all Knights that belong to a country, so it includes Knights acquired through story but excludes Quest Knights. Huzzah.

Here are midgame averages
---
Knight HP Average: 540.5
Knight INT Average: 71.1
Knight DEF Average: 118.9

HP Average (w/ monsters): 545
INT Average (w/ monsters): 68.33 (Golems thrown out)
DEF Average (w/ monsters): 118.5

Damage average: 174
Damage average (w/ monsters): 169.27

Here are the main people that this affects:

Lv29 Zemeckis
HP: 766
MP: 202
STR: 103
INT: 76
AGI: 81
ATK: 286
DEF: 137

Physical: 186
Geno-Thunder: 156
Power + Physical: 329

Lv30 Cador
HP: 722
MP: 291
STR: 104
INT: 80
AGI: 83
ATK: 293
DEF: 137

Physical: 193
Flame: 160
Curse: 220

Lv28 Esclados
HP: 685
MP: 164
STR: 103
INT: 65
AGI: 95
ATK: 291
DEF: 136

Physical: 191

Lv27 Dinadan
HP: 703
MP: 214
STR: 103
INT: 71
AGI: 92
ATK: 286
DEF: 140

Physical: 186
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Brigandine
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 11:40:45 PM »
No real surprises. Physicals use an AGI vs AGI system. A number is added (around 100, but closer to 98 in my tests) to AGI to produce odds. It usually ends up being

Your AGI + ~100 - Target AGI = Hit Rate.

Fliers are slightly more evasive. The base number for them seems to be ~80 instead of 100. However, ranged attacks have the standard 100 hit rate bonus.

A Mandrake that I applied the same logic to had a hit rate bonus of 140 or so. Dunno what to make of this. Maybe the programmers were trying to make a unit that would have poor evade but passable hit rates.

I haven't dealt with status that much. All I tested was the Dimension/Weakness spells. It's the same principle as physicals, except it uses INT instead of AGI (not sure if this applies to all spells), and the numbers added are smaller (makes sense, since anything higher would make for insanely accurate status).

For Dimension and Weakness, it goes something like this:

Your INT + ~35 - Target INT = Hit Rate

This explains the poor hit rates for the Weakness spells by retarded people like Avengers. 35 seems to be the number boost for monsters, only. Knights have slightly higher resistance to Weakness/Dimension, with 25 as the boost instead of 35. Again, I'm not sure if this applies across the board.

More to come later, maybe.
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

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Re: Brigandine
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 11:43:36 PM »
Talk to me about this on IRC tonight, I have the mechanics somewhere.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...