Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 73 (Read 685 times)

Nephrite · « **on:** June 02, 2012, 04:14:38 AM »

Glen will be added whenever he picks a floor.

"Bah... more success. Oh well, I suppose you'll just have to see what I have in store for you!"

Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

----------------
Team Yoshiken | Yoshiken | Ephraim (Body Charge), Alicia, Eiko, Gilder, Jessica [Nall]
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team Yoshiken vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Yoshiken vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Yoshiken vs. Opera, Ernest and Celene
Team Yoshiken vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team Yoshiken vs. Sothe (FE9), Karn, Edward and Vyse

Team dude | Cecilia, Ramza, Worker 8 (Firefly), Kyra, Ditto
[Ramza: Geomancer, Item, Attack UP Auto Potion]
[Floor 3a: A Singlet]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team dude vs. Chris, Rody (Firefly Rune (Not Sealstone)), Alanis and Melville
Team dude vs. Flora (WoZ)
Team dude vs. Atma Weapon
*Full Heal
Team dude vs. Evrae and Defender X
Team dude vs. Kunino-Sagiri

Team Monkey | Rikku, Virginia, KOS-MOS (Body Charge), Nall
[Love Charm, Brave Seal and Fiery Rage]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Monkey vs. Kuja and Garland
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Cloud of Darkness and Xande
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Sephiroth and Jenova-Birth
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Loki and Surt
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Lavos and Queen Zeal (Final Forms)

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[Fiery Rage Love Charm, and Hope Shard]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Glen vs. Kuja and Garland
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Cloud of Darkness and Xande
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Sephiroth and Jenova-Birth
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Loki and Surt
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Lavos and Queen Zeal (Final Forms)

Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget attacks will focus on the bearer only. (E.g. MT Attack would hit 5 times in a 5 person party.))

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed and may not be increased in any way. The rest of the team's speed is set to 95% (.95) of its normal value and may be increased.

Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x, but increases the cost of the character by 1.5x (rounded to nearest half point, .5s are 1.0s).

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2012, 08:03:18 AM »

Are cloud of darkness and xande held to forms from a specific version of FF3?

Nephrite · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2012, 03:24:29 PM »

Quote from: Monkeyfinger on June 02, 2012, 08:03:18 AM

Are cloud of darkness and xande held to forms from a specific version of FF3?

They are not.

Nephrite · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2012, 05:29:10 PM »

Glen has been added.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2012, 03:23:42 AM »

Pass for me because the worst a fight gets here is "x has to die first" which isn't particularly hard.

Team Glen:
Virginia: 126% (or after Emma)
Emma: 120%
Sharanda: 113.35%
Red: 103.55%
Eiko: 95%

Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Glen vs. Kuja and Garland - Virginia > Garland > Kuja > Emma > Sharanda > Red > Eiko. If Ginny delays, she gets hit with Stop and Kuja blows up Emma with Flare Star (which me and Pigs both agreed the topic really underestimates). So, Ginny definitely goes first and Phantasm Hearts, which is about 57% average to Kuja, and about 60% average to Garland. I'd see Kuja at 90% PCHP (and that's using the stat topic, which says 55535.. Fairly sure that's meant to be 65535) and Garland at about 107%. (Again, higher respect than the topic, but that says nothing.) Garland stops Sharanda, Kuja Flare Stars, which kills Emma. Red Fire3s, nearly finishes Kuja but just misses it. Garland's taken 82.5% now. Eiko summons, finishes Kuja off and.. probably wipes Garland too. A poke from Ginny should finish him, and either way, there's not much Garland can do alone.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Cloud of Darkness and Xande - Emma Great Boosters Virginia, who Phantasm Hearts. That's Xande and one Tentacle down. CoD has 2.3x PCHP in my books, so 1.08x left. Red's doing 0.36x off his physical, so 0.72x left with Sharanda's turn before CoD and her remaining Tentacle move.
If CoD acts, 2x Particle Beam and Lightning means Red, Emma and Eiko go down instantly. Sharanda survives on about 0.12x PCHP. Ginny survives with about 0.27x PCHP. Those two should be able to poke down anything that survives of CoD, if there is anything.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Sephiroth and Jenova-Birth - ...Wow. By the way I calculate boss HP, Jenova ends up with about 3x PCHP. Sephiroth's looking at 1.3x PCHP, but that's with a party average of 9999. Hmm.
Edit: Okay, so taking into account Seph's higher speed (man, the stat topic is vague on speeds

) he goes first and... he probably wants to take out either Virginia or Emma. Looking at Ginny's damage, he has to hit her. Gets the paralysis, just misses the KO, I want to say? Great Booster'd Sharanda just misses the OHKO on Seph, so Red has to Fire3. 0.2 to Jeno. That said, Fire Zone is apparently better for both. Call that 0.3 instead. Eiko might as well summon, since her Esuna doesn't catch Stop, which is the closest to Paralysis FFIX has. Jeno's taken 0.64. Jeno triples her physical, throwing one at Ginny to finish her off, the other two at Eiko, takes out both. Emma now Boosters Sharanda, who throws another nuke at Jenova. 1.14 from that one (!!) puts Jeno on 1.78, 1.22 left. Red can revive Eiko or Ginny, which both lead to the same result - Jenova has to Stop Red in order to not be locked down by revival. That gives Sharanda another turn as well as anyone else, and that's enough to finish Jenova off.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Loki and Surt - Oh god, understanding the VP topic. Yikes. Okay, firstly, see Loki/Surt as average speed, but winning tiebreaks. Irrelevant here, so just average. Secondly, see Loki at 2x PCHP, Surt at 1.6x (given that Glen said something about Lenneth breaking the average for Loki alone, which brings him down a little.) So, open with a Great Booster -> Phantasm Heart. That's 1.35 to Loki and.. about 1.08 to Surt? (Fuck subtractive defences with minimal notes. Blah.) Sharanda throws another 0.5 to Loki, 0.4 to Surt. Red's Fire3 does 0.27, so that finishes Loki off. Does about 0.21 to Surt, so actually kills him too. ...Am I missing something here? I guess if they get turns, this is difficult, and I guess this team's good at MT blitzing...
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Lavos and Queen Zeal (Final Forms) - So both of these miss their first turns, hrm. However, I'd kneejerk that Zeal is around 130%, meaning both wasted turns go before the party. Using my calcs, Zeal hits 2.65 PCHP, Lavos' relevant part has 1.33 PCHP, the core has 3.98. Phew. Long fight for mathing out. Effectively, this consists of: Devastate Zeal, Great Booster Sharanda who uses an ST item on Lavos Centre. Red's attack finishes the Lavos Centre, and Eiko throws up Carbuncle. Then, Lavos and Zeal move and fail to take anyone out. From here, the team can blitz Zeal while Lavos Left still fails to kill anyone and Emma Magic Zones. From here, the team can hard-lock Lavos Right into reviving by killing the Centre repeatedly, and can still do damage around it.

Edit: After talking with Pigs, decided on a pass for Team Dude, thanks to having enough healing/revival on the ST floor.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2012, 08:26:39 AM »

Quote from: Yoshiken on June 03, 2012, 03:23:42 AM

Team Glen vs. Kuja and Garland - Virginia > Garland > Kuja > Emma > Sharanda > Red > Eiko. If Ginny delays, she gets hit with Stop and Kuja blows up Emma with Flare Star (which me and Pigs both agreed the topic really underestimates).

Flare Star's is level x 35, so I'm not sure how it can be really underestimated since. Even taking a lower level just makes the raw damage worse. That 55,000 isn't a typo either (Note: Kuja sucks)

If Virginia opens with Phantasm Heart, ensuing durability becomes pretty atrocious (Just a note).

Sephiroth probably chooses to status Virginia turn 1 with a lot of damage (ITE physical with Paralysis, which isn't a status she should block here). He's faster and can just repeat endlessly if desired. I'll look at these later though.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2012, 11:58:32 AM »

...Really? I remember it consistently doing around 2.4k, and I'm generally under-levelled, if anything. Also, I know Quale and Hades have 65535, figured Trance Kuja was in the same pool as them.

Virginia can open with Phantasm Heart because, well.. it tends to close fights when it's been Great Booster'd.

I wasn't sure if Seph got an initiative turn for Wall, but I'll probably hold him to using Wall if he does. If he doesn't get an initiative turn, Virginia and Emma still go before him, even with the Speed? penalty, and between them, he gets blown up.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2012, 03:39:13 PM »

Seph doesn't have initiative, he just has better speed than you're giving him credit for, certainly enough to beat out 126% unless you use some weird scaling.

The only way Flare Star respect should vary is how much HP plus skills you use. If you don't use any it gets a bit better certainly.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2012, 07:08:25 AM »

Quote from: Dark Holy Elf on June 04, 2012, 03:39:13 PM

Seph doesn't have initiative, he just has better speed than you're giving him credit for, certainly enough to beat out 126% unless you use some weird scaling.

The only way Flare Star respect should vary is how much HP plus skills you use. If you don't use any it gets a bit better certainly.

I saw one video where Kuja's Flare Star was indeed Level x 35, but I found another video where, when Ozma used it, it's Level x 50. Is it maybe a difference between PAL and NTSC versions or something? Or do Kuja and Ozma just have different versions of Flare Star?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhRM22NB8w

A Level 1 Freya hit by Flare Star got hurt by 50.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2012, 07:30:42 AM »

Yes, Kuja and Ozma have different versions of Flare Star.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2012, 06:32:09 AM »

Floor 6 thoughts (Not votes yet though)

eam Monkey | Rikku, Virginia, KOS-MOS (Body Charge), Nall
[Love Charm, Brave Seal and Fiery Rage]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Monkey vs. Kuja and Garland- Lol this match.
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Cloud of Darkness and Xande- CoD has about 2 PC HP, the tentacles have about 1, and Xande has about 0.8. Damages/Moves to care about are
20% PC HP MT Lightning (Magic Immune Tentacle)
40% ST Phys or 100% Bad Breath (Phys Immune Tentacle)
50% Phys (CoD; Double acted)
65% Magic (Xande)

So Monkey team gets to unleash pain first.
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Sephiroth and Jenova-Birth- So Sephiroth can go first and unleash a lot of damage and status (Actually, Rikku may go first. Don't have enough FF 7 knowledge to say where I'd see the turn 1 speed falling). If he goes before Rikku, then Virginia and KOS-MOS really likely need to kill him (As I believe that the team is lacking Paralysis blocking. Only WA 3 had the status, I think), but I honestly don't have a great HP handle on him. KOS-MOS has about 65% damage on X-Buster and Virginia...maybe about that much too? I'm not voting as I could go either way.
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Loki and Surt
*Full Heal*
Team Monkey vs. Lavos and Queen Zeal (Final Forms)- These two are weird. Note that I'm dropping the lose first turn aspect because...that would make them extremely horrible.

Zeal- 2 PC HP, Probably Fast, 40% MT Physical, Extreme Raping upon use of non fatal MT (So no X-Buster turn 1)
Lavos- 3 PC HP for core, Core basically only exists to revive other parts, which takes 3 turns.
Central Bit- PC HP ish, OHKO magic, 65%-70% physical

So Rikku will go first, and then no one will die to at least one Lavos hit. This fight is honestrly kind of neutured because Zeal just forces you to avoid MT and little else. The Central Bit is not durable, and so will consistantly be getting tenderized. Not really much other damage.

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[Fiery Rage Love Charm, and Hope Shard]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Glen vs. Kuja and Garland- Lol this match.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Cloud of Darkness and Xande- They are lucky that the magic immune tentacle is the bad one. Good thing there's a lot of revival too though.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Sephiroth and Jenova-Birth- Seph can disable whoever he wants and Jenova-Birth can triple act (right? Blah, Jenova) and there's a few people she can pick off (Or likely pretty much everyone who is not Red or Virginia). I would think that Seph would probably status Virginia, Emma can GB Sharanda since her damage is the best left, and that should be okay to rush Sephiroth.
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Loki and Surt
*Full Heal*
Team Glen vs. Lavos and Queen Zeal (Final Forms)- So MT is out. Unlike Monkey's team, no one is Rikku level speed. My gut is...they should be okay, but am I missing something here? This fight is feels like it's bad considering. Is Grand Stone turn 1 or something?

SnowFire · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2012, 07:42:09 AM »

Yoshiken & dude pass, lol BC Ephraim solo at worst + lol Firefly.

Leaning pass on Team Monkey, if Rikku can set up Protect / Shell hax for some of the sluggy bossfights. The Sephiroth speed respect check... eh.

As for Jenova BIRTH, IIRC, it's only the number of hits on the laser that change for the "multiact." She can't, say, cast Stop 3 times. It's more like Boss Yuri getting a random number of hits on his physical really.

I don't know enough about too much of endgame Emma / Virginia on Team Glen to really comment, but looks promising.

Random Consonant · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2012, 09:29:22 AM »

Team dude looks like a pretty clear-cut pass. Abstain on everyone else.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2012, 03:00:52 PM »

Quote from: SnowFire on June 07, 2012, 07:42:09 AM

Leaning pass on Team Monkey, if Rikku can set up Protect / Shell hax for some of the sluggy bossfights. The Sephiroth speed respect check... eh.

For this fight, are Light Curtains / Lunar Curtains really going to save the day? Rikku is only really fast on her first turn, and she can only Protect / Shell one character per turn. Sephiroth can mangle whoever isn't Protected w/ his physical.

EDIT: Finalized votes in my next post.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #14 on:** June 07, 2012, 08:32:15 PM »

Updated my analysis on Glen. Currently talking to Pigs about what happens if you give Lavos/Zeal their first turns, but it's looking like that'd be a fail in my eyes.

Edit without editing: ...Wait. Eiko is healed by Hexagon Mist. Hahahaha. Still pretty close, since his team struggles to survive if Lavos/Zeal open by taking out Emma and.. either Sharanda or Virginia. But the high healing/revival and the fact that they can comfortably waste time chipping down Lavos before healing up to face Zeal should get them through.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #15 on:** June 07, 2012, 09:56:16 PM »

Just finalizing my votes.

Team dude and Team Yoshi pass. Firefly and BC Ephraim respectively.

Team Glen passes. I discount the lost first turn on Lavos and Zeal, but Lavos still needs to Time Warp to get off Grand Stone in my eyes, and if he uses a turn to go to 65,000,000 BC, the Central Bit dies before it gets to use Grand Stone, so instead, it goes for Crying Heavens (which, as far as I know, does not need Time Warp to be used). That kills someone, but everyone can revive, and Eiko (who absorbs Zeal's MT damage) or Sharanda (w/ Healing Breezes) can MT heal the party to recover from Hexagon Mist every time it's used. The team gets off a few attacks on the core before revival happens. Rinse and repeat 'til the Core's dead, and then the team can focus on killing Zeal.

EDIT: Still assessing Team Monkey.

dude789 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2012, 10:09:39 PM »

Yoshi, Glen and my team pass. Team Monkey fails.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2012, 10:48:25 PM »

Rikku can farm up an OD in the loki surt fight pretty easily, and open the final battle with super mighty g (Protect/Shell/Haste/Regen, MT)

It helps to remember that by now, rikku gains OD just by getting turns, so aside from the first fight on each floor, she can mix every fight unless she was actually killed or statused out in the previous one.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2012, 11:02:02 PM »

Final vote from me is a pass for Monkey. Best off farming Overdrive against Kuja, I think, but same end result. Given that I don't see Lavos/Zeal getting their first turns, and Protect/Shell/Haste MT is kinda awesome, don't think the floor can hold much to the team. (Also, I see Seph around 130-135% at best, leaning to the lower end there, so Ginny beats him to a turn and Seph pretty much has to hit KOS, meaning 2x Ginny, 2x Rikku.. Almost certainly enough to beat him.)

So, to clarify that: everyone passes~

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2012, 11:13:09 PM »

Quote from: Monkeyfinger on June 07, 2012, 10:48:25 PM

Rikku can farm up an OD in the loki surt fight pretty easily, and open the final battle with super mighty g (Protect/Shell/Haste/Regen, MT)

It helps to remember that by now, rikku gains OD just by getting turns, so aside from the first fight on each floor, she can mix every fight unless she was actually killed or statused out in the previous one.

*completely forgot about Overdrives*

So that's what people meant by Protect / Shell stuff. Derp. Will remove my vote for now, and think on it some more.

SnowFire · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2012, 11:16:42 PM »

I see "Full Heal" as the equivalent of "Full reset" so that the earlier fights don't matter. So Rikku won't get any Turn 1 Mixes off to me, I really was referring to ST Protect / Shell. Still think Monkey might be able to take it anyway, though.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2012, 10:43:54 PM »

Shockingly... I think Monkey passes. I kinda doubt that Rikku can get an Overdrive before EVERY fight, but he can certainly do it against Jenova after Sephiroth's been defeated. And I'd say he only needs the Overdrive for the Lavos/Zeal fight.

I mean... I just never expected a 3-person team to make it so far. =P