You know...every once in a while I analyze the metagame for Starcraft or Magic the Gathering or Pokemon or Advance Wars. I don't always have anywhere to put my thoughts (and notably, some of these communities will flame you off the board for theorymoning/theorycrafting/etc...and not without reason--it's easy to overlook stuff when you theorize). But I just happen to find theory fun, so as long as I'm entertaining myself by theorizing, I may as well store my thoughts somewhere. And the DL seems like the place that would most appreciate analysis just for the sake of analysis.So...without further ado, I'm kicking this off with...Pokemon:
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of serious analysis of Pokemon assumes the existence of tiers (i.e., banning of ubers as at least a possibility) because for a long time there were so few ubers that they were completely overpowered and overcentralising. This trend long predates the existence of Smogon.
Luck is an important aspect, but not something that should be relied upon, which is why OHKO moves are generally frowned upon - they're a bad strategy, worse than the actual top attacks, but because they're reliant on luck, they can beat a team that is technically better. The best strategy in Pokemon, and in a number of games that come to mind, will be one that can mitigate luck, not rely on it.Think the only perfect accurate -> OHKO, other than Smeargle, is Articuno. Possibly Froslass too? Either way, not many.And.. I'd be surprised if Leaf Storm OHKOs a Ho-oh, since they do tend to run HP EVs, so I guess you're excluding Ubers? (Hell, I'd be surprised if it OHKOed Lugia, since that thing's a tank and a half.) Not to mention things like Ferrothorn or Multiscale Dragonite...
I have OHKO a moltres but I never faught a Ho-Oh (for some reason they seem unpopular in battles being a physical fire attacker, but it does have boss special defense and x4 grass resistence)with my bellossom, the legendaries and dual types I've OHKO'd are: Deyxos (multiple forms but never defense form no one seems to run that), Lugia, Moltres, Articuno, Zapdos, Entei, Suicune(lol to easy that one though), Darkrai(got lucky since it was faster than me that darkvoid failed >.>), Dragonite, Charizard, Arceus(This time though it was on my phsyical attack bellossom and it was a double battle where I boosted its attack with the confusion atkx2 booster), Jirachi(that was surprising), Mewtwo(never fight mews), Hydragedon, Tyranitar. That is about it, the other legendaries I have fought are too fast still and usually running a choice item or choice Gyrados with fireblast >.>
You: Turret the hell out at +8Mitzu: Yea surewhat's the differenceo.oYou: Then salvage when the zealot leaves, and turret the hell out at +16Mitzu: Ohhhyou meant at +8 incomeYou: yesMitzu: thought you meant level 8 turretYou: no.Level 8 turrets suckMitzu: was like..how is that going to help..You: Mass level 4s into mass level 6s.Mitzu: yeajust don't worry that muchabout eco right?You: Yeah, stopping the zealot's eco is higher priority than ecoing yourselfMitzu: Mm hmmmYou: You do kind of eco just by existing; sitting on +16 gen is a decent amount of income.Mitzu: mm hmmshould be better than zealot'sYou: If you were really rushing you'd sell your generator.(There are some builds that sell their generator; they're pretty hillarious).Mitzu: Haha, I don't think I've seen anyat least not recently that I can rememberYou: I wouldn't bother with them outside of 1v1.Mitzu: Haha yea I thought notYou: Well...arguably it's worth it to sell your generator for your first legendary (as long as you immediately rebuild and reupgrade it).Mitzu: mmmYou: But it only gets you about 10 seconds ahead anyhow.Mitzu: that's trueactuallyYou: So...I usually don't bother.Mitzu: ehhYou: (Honestly, there's a lot of stuff with econ as probe where I'm ok with losing 5-10 seconds. Like...leaving my depot built on +32 gen; that's 8 wasted seconds, but I don't really care that much).Mitzu: ahh yeaI dont normally salvage eitherjust because I might built morelaterNot worth taking probe out againYou: YeahMitzu: For 256 to 512I normally don't build workers though, I just end up buying mineralsin bulk half the timeYou: But if I were more daring I would just head out with my probe every time.Mitzu: As long as prices aren't sky-highYou: Ehh...256 to 512 is the one area where I almost always get extra miners. Prices usually spike sometime around that time, and even if they don't, if you buy 200, you just raised the price by 100 all by yourself.Mitzu: YOu do what, sell wall and buy 2 professionals?You: 1 pro on gold will usually do itMitzu: Mmm, i feel like4k for pro, isn't really that much more then buying one setYou: 2 pros on gold generally means you plan on doing a lot of selling (1 pro implies buying if you just have 2 average + 1 advance)Mitzu: in bulkDoes the pro, mine over 200 buying it at 256 to 512?You: Hmm...it's about a 120 second upgrade time, so...mines 240 I guess?Mitzu: Ehhhhhand buying 200 will purchase at the cost 50 higher then the current on average right?You: More to the point, though, if it stays alive after 512, then you have some extra minerals; can sell them on the market as other people hit 512.Mitzu: I feel likeafter people hit 512s and even 256sminerals just become dirt cheapYou: 100 higher, but 50 higher on average.Mitzu: especially when everyone proxies the goldYou: 'Well yes, depends on the marketMitzu: Yea, so as long as the price is 150 or lessYou: Gradient certainly likes buying to 512.Mitzu: isn't it just faster to buy in bulk?Especially sincemineral income is pretty negligible after 512since you rush ultra anywayYou: Mineral income is nonnegligible if you can sell at a decent priceMitzu: After 512why would people need to buy minerals?You: And often enough it'll spike to 200 or so as other people reach 512.Mitzu: That could be trueI guess it really just depends on the other playsplayers*You: (A lot of my builds are tuned for being ahead of other probes on econ >_>)Mitzu: LOLthat could be why, I'm never as ahead of you;)You: Yeah, if I get to 512 first, the mineral price will drop.Mitzu: Maybe that's why i buy in bulkafter youhahaYou: But anyway, as far as getting a miner between 256 and 512...usually even with one Pro I still have to do SOME buying on the market.I just don't buy everything on the marketMitzu: Yeaa, and you don't buy in bulk right?You: Yeah, I'll buy like...50-80.Mitzu: Buying in bulk isn't actually cheaper than buying in 10's is it?o.oYou: Which doesn't spike the price too much.I....don't think so?Mitzu: I used to think it was at a discount, but then I realized it isn'tlolXDYou: I've never actually checked.Mitzu: if the way it calculates is based off individual sales, then it's equivalenti Used to think it was 200 minerals at the starting price you buybut that's definitely not true >.>You: yeah, I remember looking at it, and thinking "that looks equivalent, or very close."Mitzu: Haha yeaFor +32 to +64how many minerals do you normally end up selling?you go 2 average 1 advancedBut I always seem to fall behind you in that stepYou: I go 2 average for 32 to 64 usually, and sell about 40.Mitzu: no advanced?until 64?You: I get the advanced by selling the wall at 64.But...it all depends on the marketMitzu: OhhThat's what I've been doing wrongI end up selling like 60-80 insteadand then i'm behind youYou: I've done things like getting all my miners on +32 when the market was doing crazy things (like hanging out at 350)Mitzu: YeaIf it's at 250you still wait for 64?You: Buying all my miners on +32 is actually how I got my 14:38 solo max gen.yes250 isn't that muchMitzu: Mm hmmmYou: If anyone else is selling, that can tank fastMitzu: Also, in games where the zealot is good, do you still bother trying to take gold with miners?You: yeahMitzu: It seems like if the zealot is assuredly good, he'll just scan and killand then you get set behind a lotYou: If the zealot is really good, the zealot will usually ignore gold minersThey don't feed.Mitzu: Doesn't it hurt players more than zealot?That's basically stopping at least 50-60 percent of the mineral incomeYou: Ehh...as long as they last about 70 seconds before getting killed, it's probably still better than mining blueYou catapult ahead on gas income by upping your gen faster.Mitzu: if they dieDo you just end up buying restor do you rebuild at blue?Or does this all just depend on the priceYou: Buy the rest to get to the next gen up, and then rebuild on gold.Mitzu: Ahh I seeYou: Depends how close you are to gen up, reallyAlso, you can do stuff like send one miner to each gold base; if the zealot wants to run around that much, sure, don't get feed, that's fine.Mitzu: Yea, kind of what I did last game I guessbut I only split it off into 2 goldsOf course after you chased, I never retook the gold eitherYou: I only killed the one gold set because there were like...10 miners on there, and it was on my way home anyway.Mitzu: hahaYou: If you'd sent to the top gold, I wouldn't have bothered detouring that much.Mitzu: yeaaso far from my base thoughT+TYou: Just drop a depot in there; you knew which base I was going to be returning to repeatedly; you can guess my path(Good zealots are predictable; it's bad zealots who might kill you in transit)Mitzu: I honestly thoughtyou were going to camp top rightso I figured safest base would be left goldIt's only when that other guywent to left gold toothat I put one in the other oneYou: Yeah, I knew there were miners on the left gold, but I never went in there; too much of a detour.Mitzu: ahhThen when zealots scan the goldsYou: I was mostly scanning the golds to see if anyone would be dumb and actually move in.Mitzu: do you run?You: Sometimeshalf the time running turns out to be wrong, and my scvs die on the way outmay as well get in the extra mining timeMitzu: yeaYou: Ideally split up the miners and send them different directions.Mitzu: mm hmmYou: and hope he wastes time by chasing XDMitzu: I've tried doing that, but with only 3-4 minersand zealot's speed and damage, they normally don't get very farbut I guess any time wasted is still goodYou: Yeah, my splits are bad.Mitzu: Ohhhh second point! What is your build for zealot?You: I sometimes get like...1-2 out alive.Mitzu: Damage, attack speed, health?You: Most important thing with zealot is damage.Mitzu: yeaYou: overall DPS I mean.Mitzu: ErrYou: So...you'll notice that level 1 attack up is +2, and level 1 attack speed is +20%.Mitzu: don't get level 2 attackbefore you at least get attack speed?You: Thing is, +2 is actually a 40% bonus over 5 damage.Mitzu: ohh yeajkXDYou: Yeah, it's an imbalanced square.Mitzu: So damage over speed, until you get the 80%thing right?or after a certain point in damage, speed becomes worth it>.>You: You generally want to spend about 250 more on attack power than attack speed.Mitzu: What about for armor life and regenLife first?I see a lot of people go regenYou: Basically, if you had 10 base power, then +2 would be a 20% bonus.Regen sucks.Mitzu: Really?You: I generally never buy regen.Mitzu: just pure life and armor?You: Yeah.And mostly lifeWith a cheap armor, because it's a percentage bonusMitzu: mm hmmYou: But like...better to double up on life than to get 9% more damage reduction.Mitzu: Yea trueYou: (The typical ratio I go for is to spend about 4x as much on life as on armor).Mitzu: I seeYou: (That breaks down a little towards the expensive armors, because it's harmonic).(The gap between 63% reduction and 72% reduction is much larger than the gap between 9% and 18%).Mitzu: So many things to think about =.= just being a probe is hard enough hahaYou: But yeah: other stuff: never buy level 4 attack speed (but that's kind-of obvious).Mitzu: err which one is the level 4 attack speed100 percent?You: yepMitzu: ahh yeai normally just go from 80 to 200You: 800 minerals for +100...when you can spend 400 minerals for +80Yeah, 80 to 200 is right.It's actually correct to stick on 80 for a really long time (like up around 50 damage).Mitzu: mmmYou: But...yeah, past that, in the lategame I focus builds around dealing with T11s, because T11s are that good.Mitzu: Mm hmmso what, armor and life? XDYou: If you don't have gas, stacking two 128 HPs, and one 128 armor will let you survive an 11-void with a teleportMitzu: Really?You: Barely; you survive 6 hits.Err...the 6th hit kills youBut void only lasts 5 seconds.Mitzu: mmmThat's not bad at all thennormally you'd have gas by 11 though right?You: Well...yes, normally I have gas around the time people are still on +64 gen >_>Mitzu: XDwhat is that, 7 and 8 turrets?You: You can support a level 9 turret on +64Mitzu: mmYou: I mean, not without delaying yourself, but that's about what the Mega Wall 1 costs, which is what you need for the upgrade.Mitzu: mm hmmYou: And yeah, other post-gas stuff: 1 gas HP, and 128 armor makes you pretty safe against 11s--they kill in 15 seconds (denies feed, but you'll live).Mitzu: and not everyone should have 11'sYou: 1 gas HP, 1 gas armor lets you live 45 seconds against 11s (feed as much as you want).Mitzu: mmmYou: I usually stop getting durability around 1 gas HP 1 gas armor, unless I just have spare gas (in which case I'll get 2 gas armor, then 2 gas HP).Or the probes are making multiple 11s, of course.Mitzu: i thought you said life over armorYou: Gas armor is differentMitzu: doesn't it just gofrom 92 to 96?You: 92% to 96% = doubleMitzu: ehhdoes life double too?You: Yes.Mitzu: so then it doesn't matterYou: So...it's pretty much equivalent.Mitzu: which one you get?ahh kkYou: (Armor is still slightly better due to your innate 500 HP and innate passive regen >_>)Mitzu: hehXDYou: And 8 gas armor is just flat out better than 8 gas HP.Mitzu: For sureYou: (armor doubles again, HP goes from 320000 to 490000)Mitzu: yeaYou: Oh, and Regen 11 is actually good; arguably better than 490000 HP.Mitzu: it's the 20 k hp per sec right?You: YeahQuadruple the previous one.Mitzu: coupled with armor, I'D ASSUME SOoopscapsXDYou: Well....so here's the thingIMO all the regens (Except regen 11) should be doubled in how much they regenHere's whyfor the most part, 100 minerals buys you 250 HP, or 4 regen.In order to get more than 250 life regened in a single visit, you have to keep knocking on the probe's door for 62.5 seconds.It's basically never worth it to stay that long without returning home to upgrade.Mitzu: yeaYou: Double the bonus from regen, however, and now you're looking at 30 seconds; that's quite attractiveBUT: regen is still vulnerable. If you go all regen, and someone gets a T9, one void and you die.Mitzu: mm hmmlife is just saferYou: Yeah; if regen bonus was doubled, I'd....still go life a lot of the time, but go regen when I feel I should take a risk.Mitzu: so you never buy regeuntil max?You: Pretty muchRegen 11 is good; it also stacksMitzu: Mk, sounds good to me!You: If you have to deal with multiple max turrets, for instance, you can have one damage sponge wearing 4x regen 11.They can absorb 3-4 T13s.Then load a kitty up with like...four max blades to kill the final wall.Mitzu: wait4 x regen 11with whatarmor and life?You: YeahMitzu: won't they just killyour cats?o.oor damage is too highYou: You have to hope they don't focus fireMitzu: for them to focus in time?ehh without kitties you loseas soon as they hit finalYou: Well yesMitzu: right?You: Well...ok, no not exactlyDouble max weps can break it.If there aren't too many repairs.Mitzu: but then if they build turretsin timeyou die right?You: Well...one max turret isn't too bad; regen 11 and 99% pretty much nullify it.Two max turrets means you can only stay for 20 seconds, though.Mitzu: ouchso by 4it's auto killwith void?or wait..8 is auto killo.oYou: 4 kills in...7 seconds? Something like that.But yeah, you need a kitty if you want to break 4 max turrets and a final wall.Mitzu: Mm hmmYou: One max turret and one final wall is breakable solo, at least if they only have one probe repairing.But...more to the point, it's very very rare that you ever get to this point; either probes or zealot tend to pull ahead and kill/completely feed deny long before final wall.Mitzu: haha yealike that game where we had like 15 final walls and like 8 turretsXDYou: Haha, not actually the best way to do the endgame though.Just cover the map with final turrets and zealot detectors.Mitzu: yea i figuredYou: What's he going to do, attack one of the final turrets?Ok, he dies.Oh, yeah, the other thing you can do against final wall if you catch them just as they get it, but before they get a final turret, is 3x max blades.Mitzu: =0 lol, just pure damageXDYou: You still have HP and armor >_>Mitzu: well yea >.>You: (Although, if you want to play really risky, you can sell the armor too, and go for 4x max blades)Mitzu: lolYou: (You'll be fine as long as they don't have a 13....)(But you'd have to run from like...a 12 x_x)Mitzu: hahaYou: (Well...you could stay for like...20 seconds against a 12, which might be enough time to knock down the wall)(Wait...20...no that isn't right is it? Hmm...ok, no more like 8 seconds).Mitzu: lololXDnot to mention, that'sonly 1?Most people would have like 2 -3 if they already have finalat the minimumYou: Some people will sell all turrets when they realize they're not even hurting you.(Which is actually not a bad strategy)(Might as well try to econ faster)Mitzu: mmmAnyways, I'm pretty tired, gonna call it a night. Thanks for all the info and tips Let's play again sometimeYou: ya later
My obscure character to use in tournaments was Luigi. His air game is a lot of fun, and I have a lot of control of his movements in the air. I love trying to predict an opponents movements when they are sailing and try to juggle them for mass-hysteria.
Another thing, I was never a wave dashing person. I figured that I wanted to test my skills against players that did wave dash, and I was not too far behind them. Sure, there are advantages to knowing how to do stuff like that, but I'd have to re-learn so much and I never wanted to get that focused. I was having fun with what I was doing, so I left it at that. Plus it was always fun to beat wave dashers.
Most of those legendaries you listed are not considered "ubers" and are not banned from normal play. In fact, most legendaries don't have especially great stats. The ones that are banned to ubers....Deoxys A (glass cannon)
Deoxys S (Mediocre durability--badly distributed stats for it)
Lugia (Unholy tank; and takes half-damage from grass, and most EV builds pour even more into defences. Err...yeah, this is strange--you sure it was level 100 with EVs?)
Darkrai (Mediocre durability--kind of like Deoxys S but not as bad)
Arceus (Fantastic tank, but as you mentioned there were special circumstances here)
Mewtwo (Much more known for ridiculous speed and offence than durability, but his durability isn't bad)
would be better if there we more viable strats for endless other than cob cannons and winterpults everywhere