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The RPG Duelling League  |  RPG Debate  |  RPG Stats Forum  |  Unranked Games (Moderators: Dark Holy Elf, Dhyerwolf)  |  Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song
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Author Topic: Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song  (Read 2969 times)

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Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song
« on: August 27, 2008, 11:19:48 PM »
Originally not compiled by Miki.

Romancing Saga: Minstrel's Song is a remake of Romancing SaGa 1 for PS2.  It is in many ways a typical SaGa game, but is generally more polished, accessible, and plotless (yeah, really).  Anyway, here's a rundown, as concise as I can make it, of everything relevant about the game system.

[size=18]Stats:[/size]

HP: you know the drill.
LP: you lose one each time you die, and some magic skills and special weapons have LP costs. (some LP costs are 50 or 25% chances to cost 1 LP.  They have been abbreviated as .5 and .25 LP.)
BP: battle points: what you pay for techs with in combat.  Numbers are in this format: 'starting BP'/'max BP' + 'BP regained each round'  Each character starts every combat with Starting BP.

STR:  Damage stat for STR-based techs.
VIT:  Defense stat for physical damage and physical status effects.
DEX:  Determines chance to hit, and damage for DEX-based techs (mostly Foil and Short sword moves)
AGI:  Determines speed in comabat, physical evasion, and damage for the few AGI-based attacks.
INT:  Damage stat for most schools of magic.
WIL: Defense stat for magic and mental status effects.
COM:  Controlling stat for healing techs, so dunces like Galahad can fix themselves up.
CHA:  Boon of min/maxers the world over.  In traditional D&D fashion, does nothing.  Ok, determines Illusion magic damage and status hitrate (get out your microscope if you want to see the difference).

PDEF: Total physical armor rating.  Larger factor than VIT in determining physical damage taken.
MDEF: Total magical armor rating.  More important than WIL for determining magic damage.
Weight: Total armor and weapon weight.  Has a tiny effect on speed (heavier goes later, duh) and crit rate.  I won't be listing it per character because it is such a minute factor.

[size=18]Skills:[/size]

There are three types of skills: Weapon, Magic, and Support.  A character can get up to level five in any skill.  Magic and Weapons skills reduce the BP cost of techniques in their categories (weapon skills are by weapon).  Support skills are not combat-related.

[size=18]Techniques:[/size]

In typical SaGa fashion, weapon techniques are learned through using certain moves in combat.  Weapon skill level and difficulty of opponent determine the chance to spark a new tech.  There are a whopping 16 categories of weapons, and most of them dovetail with others for moves.  If you learn a move for one weapon, you can use that move on any weapon that has it (Mega Thrust, for example, is shared by Foils, Short Swords, Long Swords, and Lances).  Similar to SaGa Frontier there is a weapon or magic 'crown' (though it is not visualized or mentioned explicitly). If more than 90% of a character's techs are physical, BP/LP cost for physical techniques are reduced by 1; vice versa for magic.

     [size=14]Weapon categories:[/size]
     Foil, Short Sword, Long Sword, Great Sword, Two-Handed Sword, Katana, Scimitar, Hand Axe, Two-Handed Axe, Club, Staff, Lance, Pole Arm, Bow, Martial Arts, and Shield.

[size=18]Spells:[/size]

Spells are all storebought and cannot be learned otherwise.  There are ten schools of magic, each having six normal spells and two synthesis spells.  Unlike weapon techs, spells are exclusive to a single category.  Synthesis spells are only usable by specific classes, none of which are native to a PC (so no Overdrive, alas).  Schools of magic are paired in opposites, Pyrology and Hydrology for example, and a character can only use one of those pairs at a time (though they can know spells for both).

     [size=14]Spell categories:[/size]
     Hydrology and Pyrology
     Aerology and Terrology
     Illusion and Demonology
     Cosmology and Sorcery
     Bewitchery and Necromancy

[size=18]Classes:[/size]

Classes are basically sets of skills.  Each character can have one class active at a time.  If a character has a certain level of all the skills in a class, the character qualifies for the class at that level (if you have Foil lvl 3, Long Sword lvl 2, and Shield lvl 3, you qualify for Frontier Guard lvl 2, for example).  Classes all have passive bonuses of some sort, about half of which are combat related.  Characters are assumed here to have lvl 5 in all their starting skills, hence lvl 5 of their initial class.  Honestly, there's no practical way to get all your characters to lvl 5 classes in your first playthrough, but you could get some of them there. (characters get a steep discount for lvl 4 skills of their initial class.  In your first playthrough, your party will probably all be lvl 4 of their classes, with a few lvl 5 skills)

[size=18]Damage Types and Spell Categories:[/size]

No good place to fit this in, but it's important for the bosses.  Romancing SaGa has eight elements: Slash, Blunt, Piercing, typically physical, Fire, Cold, Electric, Energy, typically magical, and Status.  PCs and bosses resist these at different rates.  For PCs resistance is entirely based on equipment; bosses have innate resistances.  Side note: elemental resistance should not be confused with spell-class immunity.  Pyrix, for example, immunes pyrology but is still possible to damage with fire attacks (though he heavily resists them).  There are magic and physical fire-elemental attacks that pyrology immunity would do nothing against (Sunray and Fire Illusion, for example).  For moves, only magical elements are noted, since noting the physical damage type would unnecessarily clutter things.

[size=18]Equipment:[/size]

Characters get the following: 4 weapons, a shield, helmet, body armor, gloves, boots, accessory, and ring.  Characters are set up here for max total defense, which makes them heavy as hell, which may slightly inflate boss speeds depending on your point of view.  This setup has higher physical than magical defense, and other setups are possible (by tempering with vernie instead of garal) that have better magical defense, so depending on your point of view, bosses may be higher on magic and lower on physical damage than is reflected here.  For each individual PC the only equipment listed is weapons and alternatives unique to that PC.  Other than that, you can assume they're wearing this.

[size=16]Standard Setup:[/size]
   
     Vernie Shield (alt. nothing if character can't use a shield with their weapon of choice, or Garal Shield, which has a lower block rate but can block projectiles)
     Helmet: Fashionable Helm tempered with Garal (darkness immunity)
     Body Armor: Field Plate  tempered with Garal (+10% cold and fire protection and -10% electric protection)
     Gloves: Conqueror Gloves tempered with Garal
     Boots: Leg Mail tempered with Garal
     Accessory: Wing Amulet (+3 AGI; this is already reflected in PC stats)
     Ring: Guardian's Ring (+10% status resistance)

Characters in this topic use the best non-tempered stprebpught weapons available.  This slightly decreases Foil's damage compared to the average you would get if you used tempered storeboughts.  Everything else would remain more or less as-is comparatively.

   [size=16]Standard Weapons:[/size]

   Foil: Rapier
   Short Sword: Werewolf
   Long Sword: Schianova
   Great Sword: N/A
   Two-Handed Sword: Morglay
   Katana: N/A
   Lance: Military Fork
   Pole Arm:
   Bow: Kjar Bow
   Club: Cyclone Club
   Staff: Quarterstaff
   Hand Axe: Throwing Axe
   Two-Handed Axe: Great Axe

[size=18]Blocking, Deflecting, and Countering:[/size]

To be able to block, deflect, or counter, a character must fulfill certain conditions.  For blocking, the character needs a shield, and needs either to be defending, or using a 1-handed weapon (Katanas and Great Swords are 2-handed; the rest should be obvious).  Blocking can stop any short-range blockable physical (almost all of them).  Some shields can also block projectiles.  For countering the character must be using martial arts that round.  Counters are possible only against short-range physicals.  Upon a successful counter, the attacker deals damage to itself and the defender takes no damage.  For deflecting, a character must be attacking in the current round with any weapon but hand axe, two-handed axe. katana, or martial arts.  Attacking in defense mode increases the chance of deflecting, countering, or blocking by a factor of 4.

Short version:

Characters can block with shields on turns they attack with:
Foil, Short Sword, Long Sword, Scimitar, Hand Axe, and Club

Characters can deflect on turns they attack with:
Foil, Short Sword, Long Sword, Great Sword, Two-Handed Sword, Club, Staff, Lance, or Pole Arm

Characters can counter on turns they attack with:
Martial Arts

[size=18]Combat modes:[/size]

Whenever a character uses a physical attack, s/he uses one of three combat modes.  Modes must be set on a weapon before combat, though a weapon can be set to be able to switch between modes at a cost to attack power  (not that this should be a big deal considering there are 4 weapon slots).  There is a rock-paper-scissors relationship, Attack>Trick>Defense, where modes lose their bonus.  For example, if an attacker uses attack mode while a defender uses defense mode, the attack mode loses its bonus damage. This doesn't make a big difference ingame, except to make trick mode mostly useless, because enemies most commonly use attack mode.  A mode's bonus always works if the defender is using magic or the defend command.

Attack Mode: damage is multiplied by 1.3
Defense mode: chance of deflecting, countering, or blocking an attack is 4x normal; damage taken is multiplied by 0.8
Trick mode: attack executes faster.

For the sake of simplicity, in damage averages I'm assuming all characters use attack mode.  Galahad and Diana's classes claim ingame only to work in defense and trick modes respectively, but neither class works that way in practice (nor does Gray's, which says it relies on attack mode).  Characters with shield or martial arts skill may want to use defense mode in certain circumstances.  I'm not listing it, but in defense mode attacks do about 75% what they do in attack mode.

[size=24]PCs:[/size]

This being a SaGa game, PC stats are notoriously inconsistent.  The stats listed below are taken at ER22 and rounded to the nearest 5 (with the exception of starting BP).  Stat bonuses from equipment are already added to the stats listed below.  Stats in parentheses are for alternate setups.  Listed below are all 8 main characters, and all PCs that are recruitable with no special requirements, with the exception of Dowd and Herman, who start with no combat skills, and The Minstrel, who leaves your party every time you enter a bar.  If you want to consider them for the purposes of averages, they are average defensively, Herman is below average in every stat, Dowd is better but not by much, and the Minstrel is averagish in stats other than STR, in which he is below average.  All three keep company with Aisha, the current lowest, for damage (I estimate, and take this with a grain of salt, that their inclusion would lower the 3-turn damage average about 350 points from its current 5608).

Damages were taken against an Alsak, a monster that has no special resistances (as almost everything does).  Alsaks are on the low side for defense, so compared to bosses and lategame-only randoms, the damages numbers are high.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

[size=16]Albert[/size]

"I am Albert!  Son of Rudolph!  Lord of the Isthmus!"

HP: 530
LP: 12
BP: 13/45 +5

STR: 60 (50)
VIT: 65 (55)
DEX: 50
AGI: 50
INT: 40
WIL: 50
COM: 50
CHA: 50

PDEF: 86 (109)
MDEF:  78 (94)

Class: Frontier Guard
Skills: Long Sword, Foil, Shield, Cosmology
Class Ability: Prevents ambushes.  Hooray?

Long Sword:
   Impact Slash: 700 sometimes stuns 0BP (600)
   Double Slash 1100 1BP (900)
   Resonance Edge 1350 2BP (1300)
   Mega Thrust 1500 5BP
   Still Blade 2250 8BP (1900)

Foil:
   Impact Slash: 600 1BP
   Paralyzing Thrust: 250 lowers AGI 0BP
   Resonance Edge: 1200 1BP
   Mega Thrust: 1400 5BP
   Southern Cross: 1800 10BP
   Kaleidoscope: 1900 13BP

Cosmology:
   Sunray: 450 fire+energy-elemental 1BP
   Moonbeam: 450 healing cures mental status effects 3BP
   Bind to Earth: inflicts paralysis. 50% hitrate. 3BP
   Starlight: Creates a magical shield on the caster.  This spell is stackable, each casting creating a star.  Its block rate is (35 +5*number of stars) percent (so 40% at one casting and 60% at 5).  It blocks magic, physical, and status attacks. 5BP/.25LP
   Starbeam: Reduces stars from Starbeam to zero, damage is 400 times the number of stars plus 1 for a max of 6 stars and 2400 energy damage. 5BP/.25LP
   Cosmic Tide: MT starbeam, max damage of 1800 5BP/1LP

Equipment:
   Mirsa's Armor: Chest armor, raises STR and VIT by 10 and prevents LP damage.  Numbers in parentheses are assuming Field Plate (which is better defensively).  Anyone can obtain Mirsa's Armor, but if Albert gets it as a main character, he gets a costume change to him wearing it.  Seems like a pretty solid claim to me.

Notes: Decent damage, and cheap, solid healing with Moonbeam is nice, but Albert's main selling point is his defensive capabilities.  Shield skill plus the standard deflection rate of a long sword give him an impressive block rate when attacking (which he may well want to improve by using defense mode,despite the lost damage).  Most importantly, he can cast Starlight,which is tremendously effective, stackable, and blocks magic.

[size=16]Aisha[/size]

"We're off again!"

HP: 540
LP: 10
BP: 12/40 +5

STR: 45
VIT: 45
DEX: 45
AGI: 45
INT: 45
WIL: 50
COM: 50
CHA: 50

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Herbalist
Skills: Terrology, (Hand Axe)
Class Ability: Is a freakin' hippie.  Seriously?  Picks flowers better.

Terrology:
   Pulverize: 450 0BP
   Summon Elemental: Replaces caster with an elemental.  See "Elementals" at the bottom of the PCs section for more details. 7BP
   Tremor: 400 4BP
   Aegis: Creates a magical shield targeting one ally that blocks all physical, magical, and status attacks at a 35% rate. 8BP

Hand Axe:
   Crescent Slash: 650 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 300 lowers DEF 2BP
   Maim: 300 lowers AGI 2BP
   Flyby: 950 2BP (Reverse: Skydive: 1800)
   Rolling Slash: 550 MT 3BP
   Nutcracker: 1200, lowers DEF 7BP
   Reverse Delta: 1400 10BP (Reverse: Shiva Triangle: 1900)

Notes: Aisha sucks.  Tepid stats and bad damage backed up only by Aegis.  Summon Elemental is a nice trick, and unlike most PCs, Aisha has the BP to use it (not to mention nothing better to use it on) but the elemental's damage is so bad that it's not presenting a big advantage in the long run.

[size=16]Gray[/size]

“You shouldn’t start a fight that you can’t win.  Usually.”

HP: 540
LP: 11
BP: 16/40 +4

STR: 65
VIT: 55
DEX: 40
AGI: 50
INT: 35
WIL: 50
COM: 45
CHA: 45

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Swordsman
Skills: Long Sword, Foil, 2-Handed Sword, (Katana)
Class Ability: Deals more damage while attacking (about 23% more than other characters with comparable stats)

Long Sword:
   Knee Split: 200 stuns about 30% of the time 0BP
   Double Slash: 1300 1BP
   Resonance Edge 1800 2BP

Foil:
   Paralyzing Thrust: 250 lowers DEX 0BP

2-Handed Sword:
   Blunt Strike: inflicts paralysis (about 30% accuracy)
   Upper Smash: 2800 7BP

Katana:
   Double Vertical 850 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 600 lowers STR 2BP
   Gust Blade 1800 lowers AGI 8BP
   Wheel Swing 1550 MT 6BP

Equipment: Demonbrand: Katana; 55 attack power, +10 STR (already included in his stats and taken into account for damage)

Notes: Upper Smash.  Upper Smash.  Upper Smash.  Gamebest damage, not much else.  Ironic that one so named should be so black and white.  Also, note that a 34 Attack power two-handed sword is capable of embarrassingly outdamaging a 55 attack power katana.  My theory is that a katana shot the director's dog.

[size=16]Claudia[/size]

"Is your destiny to fight?  To win?  Or to die?"

HP: 560
LP: 17
BP: 10/50 +7

STR: 55
VIT: 45
DEX: 50
AGI: 50
INT: 45
WIL: 50
COM: 45
CHA: 50

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Ranger
Skills: Bow, Terrology
Class Ability: randomly lowers DP costs.  More useful than it sounds.

Bow:
   Splash Shot: 450 0BP
   Triple Shot: 1000 3BP
   Id Break: 700 lowers INT 4BP
   Plasma Shot: 1250 electric-elemental 5BP
   Zapper: 2100 energy-elemental 6BP
   Shadow Shot: 1400 energy-elemental inflicts ID with about 10% accuracy 9BP
   Phoenix Arrow: 1100, drains 700 HP 7BP (note: the HP return on this, and all draining moves, is maddeningly inconsistent.  For 1100 the range I saw was 500-1000; against good defense the result can be as low as 200)

Terrology:
   Pulverize: 250 0BP
   Summon Elemental: Replaces caster with an elemental.  See "Elementals" at the bottom of the PCs section for more details. 7BP
   Tremor: 200 4BP
   Aegis: Creates a magical shield targeting one ally that blocks all physical, magical, and status attacks at a 35% rate. 8BP

Notes: Good damage plus (typically) full draining, with Aegis and Summon Elemental to back it up makes Claudia a force to be reckoned with.  Her gamebest +7 BP regen means she can use her best moves indefinitely.

[size=16]Jamil[/size]

"Quick!  Somebody sneeze on us!"

HP: 510
LP: 11
BP: 23/50 +4

STR: 40
VIT: 35
DEX: 55
AGI: 55
INT: 40
WIL: 40
COM: 30
CHA: 45

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Thief
Skills: Foil
Class Ability: Steals your honey like he stole your bike.

Foil:
   Impact Slash: 600 0BP
   Paralyzing Thrust: 250 lowers DEX 0BP
   Resonance Edge: 1200 2BP
   Mega Thrust: 1400 5BP
   Southern Cross: 1800 10BP
   Kaleidoscope: 1900 13BP

Notes: Decent character ingame gimped by the terrible attack power of Rapier, the best non-tempered storebought foil (how bad is it?  he starts with one).  Not that poor equipment is to blame for his bad durability, mind.

[size=16]Sif[/size]

"Let's fight together like we used to!"

HP: 550
LP: 12
BP: 16/40 +4

STR: 50
VIT: 50
DEX: 40
AGI: 50
INT: 20
WIL: 25
COM: 35
CHA: 45

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Valhallan Warrior
Skills: Hand Axe, 2-Handed Sword
Class Ability: Recovers quickly from physical status ailments.

Hand Axe:
   Crescent Slash: 750 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 350 lowers DEF 2BP
   Maim: 400 lowers AGI 2BP
   Flyby: 1150 2BP (Reverse: Skydive: 2250)
   Rolling Slash: 650 MT 3BP
   Nutcracker: 1400, lowers DEF 7BP
   Reverse Delta: 1600 10BP (Reverse: Shiva Triangle: 2150)

2-Handed Sword:
   Double Vertical: 600 0BP
   Blunt Strike: inflicts paralysis (about 30% accuracy) 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 250 lowers STR 2BP (extra damage vs. skeletons!  take that, Skelly!)
   Cross Break: 750 2BP
   Secret Three-Step: 1350 4BP
   Upper Smash: 2100 7BP

Equipment: Dragon's Eye: accessory, grants +20 resistance to energy, electric, fire, and cold elements, immunes mental statuses, and gives +9 INT

Notes: Decent damage, decent elemental resistance, immunity to mental status effects and resistance to physical ones makes Sif a solid slugfester.  Good thing she has the elemental resists, too, because her terrible WIL makes her one of the least magically durable cast members.
Notes:

[size=16]Hawke[/size]

"Don't give me your long-winded, pathetic life story, you sad, spineless jellyfish, and quit feeling sorry for yourself!"

HP: 550
LP: 14
BP: 17/35 +4

STR: 60
VIT: 50
DEX: 50
AGI: 55
INT: 25
WIL: 40
COM: 50
CHA: 45

PDEF: 93 (109)
MDEF: 81 (94)

Class: Pirate
Skills: Hand Axe, Foil, Hydrology
Class Ability: Speed in battle is increased.  Sexy.  Tough to say exactly how much, but my guess is 20% at the very least.

Hand Axe:
   Wheel Strike: 900 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 450 lowers DEF 2BP
   Maim: 600 lowers AGI 2BP
   Flyby: 1500 2BP (Reverse: Skydive: 2600)
   Rolling Slash: 850 MT 3BP
   Nutcracker: 1700, lowers DEF 7BP
   Reverse Delta: 1900 10BP (Reverse: Shiva Triangle: 2700)

Foil:
   Impact Slash: 600 1BP
   Paralyzing Thrust: 250 lowers AGI 0BP
   Resonance Edge: 1200 1BP
   Mega Thrust: 1400 5BP
   Southern Cross: 1800 10BP
   Kaleidoscope: 1900 13BP

Hydrology:
   Healing Water: 375 healing 0BP
   Water Blast: 300 cold-elemental damage 3BP
   Holy Water: cures all status ailments 3BP
   Summon Elemental: Replaces caster with an elemental.  See "Elementals" at the bottom of the PCs section for more details. 7BP
   Fold Time: Ends the turn. 8BP

Equipment: Salty Bandanna (head: +7 STR and AGI, immunes curses).  If he opts instead for Fashionable Helm, his defense goes up, noted in parentheses, and his hand axe damage decreases to where Sif's is.

Notes: Great agility plus a special class ability make Hawke the fastest PC.  Add free healing, cheap damage, and fun, if dubiously useful, tricks such as Summon Elemental and Fold Time to the mix.  Serve cold with a side of Lizard.

[size=16]Barbara[/size]

"The more the merrier, right?"

HP: 550
LP: 12
BP: 18/45 +5

STR: 50
VIT: 55
DEX: 45
AGI: 50
INT: 35
WIL: 45
COM: 45
CHA: 50

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Entertainer
Skills: Long Sword, Martial Arts, Demonology
Class Ability: Reduces enemy ability to perform combos by 90%.  Yay?

Long Sword:
   Impact Slash: 600 sometimes stuns 0BP
   Double Slash 900 1BP
   Resonance Edge 1300 2BP
   Mega Thrust 1500 5BP
   Still Blade 1900 8BP

Martial Arts:
   One Two Three: 600 1BP
   Square Throw: 350 lowers STR 2BP
   Drunken Strike: 800 2BP
   Rocket Spear: 850 3BP
   Suplex: 900 30% stun chance 4BP
   Thunder Kick: 1100 lightning-elemental 5BP
   Shimmer Strike: 1000 lowers INT 6BP
   Jackhammer: 1200 30% stun chance 6BP
   Silent Assassin: 1100 30% ID chance (or so) 8BP
   Triple Dragon: 1600 11BP/.5LP
   Raksha: 2200 30% ID chance (or so) 10BP/1LP
   Nine Marks: 1800 15BP/.5LP
   Second Wind: 500 healing, adds regenerate (about 10% healing at the end of every round) 5BP (Reverse: Focus Palm: MT drain attack, 400 damage and 200 healing per enemy)

Demonology:
   Energy Bolt: 275 energy-elemental
   Armor Blessing: increases DEF (seems to take about 25 dmg off of attacks)
   Enhance Spells: increases INT (in practice, adds about 50-100 damage to spells)
   Shock Wave: 275, sometimes shocks (cancels a spell about to be cast)
   Mind Blast: 450 energy-elemental lowers WIL

Notes: Decent damage, ID that, for a SaGa game, is shockingly effective, and nearly full healing.  The healing in particular is fun because it counts as a martial arts attack.  This does two things.  First, it makes Barbara able to counter on turns she uses it, and second, it acts as a drain attack (albeit with worse healing) when it criticals.  So against close-range physical fighters, it's entirely possible that Barbara wants to just spam Second Wind in defensive mode, which is an amusing picture.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

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Re: Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 11:20:18 PM »

[size=16]Myriam[/size]

"If you wanna beat the big guys, you have to use your head."

HP: 500
LP: 13
BP: 14/50 +4

STR: 25
VIT: 45
DEX: 45
AGI: 50
INT: 55
WIL: 50
COM: 50
CHA: 50

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: none
Skills: Pyrology, Staff
Class Ability: Myriam doesn't have a starting class, but I recommend that she be taken as if her two starting abilities were in-class abilities.  What this would do is reduce her LP costs for magic to zero without otherwise altering her moveset.  The classes Wizard and Sorceror both cover both of her skills, so this is a possible (and likely) situation ingame.

Pyrology:
   Hellfire: 450 fire-elemental 0BP
   Flame of Life: adds regen status (regen heals about 10% of total HP at the end of each round) 0BP
   Self-Immolation: creates a magical shield for the user.  This shield blocks 100% of fire-elemental, cold-elemental, and short range attacks.  Any ST short-range attack that hits the shield deals its damage to the attacker as if the attacker had attacked itself (so it uses the attacker's defensive stats, etc).  Shield lasts until hit by a ST short-range attack.  Does not stack with Revive. 4BP
   Summon Elemental: Replaces caster with an elemental.  See "Elementals" at the bottom of the PC section for more details. 7BP
   Bird of Flame: 1100 MT fire-elemental damage 7BP
   Revive: adds revive status, so that when a character recieves fatal damage, they are fully healed.  They still lose 1 LP, but keep their current BP total.  They also lose any status effects, positive or negative.  Lasts until the effect occurs.  Does not stack with Self-Immolation. 6BP

Staff:
   Spin Thrust: 450 0BP
   Blitz: 1100 6BP
   Time and Tide: 1400 15BP

Notes: Myriam thanks whatever deity she believes in that Staff has three moves with damage not based on strength (my first playthrough, her STR never gained a single point, remaining at 8 the whole game).  Myriam's damage is terrible, but she has a wealth of defensive resources that make up for it and then some.  Self-Immolation is her bread and butter, so cheap she can cast it indefinitely, and capable of completely shutting down short-range physical attackers (not to mention fire and ice reliant casters).  Summon Elemental adds insult to injury on that score, as the elemental replacing Myriam has the same Pyrology skillset (though its stats are terrible).  Finally, Revive buys her a lot of time to chip away at her foe, and even provides a novel way of resisting otherwise-incapacitating status ailments like sleep and paralysis.  Such an awesome skillset.  Makes you wonder why she hangs out with a square like Gray.


[size=16]Galahad[/size]

“Only by fighting can we know the enemy’s true strength.”

HP: 550
LP: 18
BP: 16/40 +3

STR: 50
VIT: 50
DEX: 45
AGI: 50
INT: 45
WIL: 40
COM: 50
CHA: 40

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Rosalian Officar
Skills: Long Sword, Club, Lance, Shield, Bewitchery
Class Ability: Increases effective defense when attacked by 50%.  Embarasses a number of enemies who fail to do any damage.  In practice, most cases he takes just over half the damage as he would otherwise.

Long Sword:
   Impact Slash: 600 sometimes stuns 0BP
   Double Slash 900 1BP
   Resonance Edge 1300 2BP
   Mega Thrust 1500 5BP
   Still Blade 1900 8BP

Club:
   Wheel Strike: 750 0BP
   Crushing Hit: 900 1BP
   Cruncher: 800 lowers VIT 4BP
   Nutcracker: 1450 lowers DEF 7BP
   Knee Split: 150 sometimes stuns 0BP
   Bonecrusher: 400 lowers STR 2BP
   Grand Slam: 950, and an additional 1200 at the end of the turn; misses flying enemies 9BP

Lance:
   Double Stab: 400 (Reverse: Triple Stab 850) 0BP
   Drill Stab: 800 1BP
   Split Cranium: 300 lowers INT 4BP
   Twin Dragon: 1300 4BP
   Mega Thrust: 1400 5BP
   Acupuncture: 2100 10BP
   Stardust: 1200 (Reverse: Swooping Dragon: 2800) 13BP

Bewitchery:
   Way of Defense: raises VIT 0BP
   Way of Spirit: raises WIL 0BP
   Way of Strength: raises STR 0BP
   Wave of Life: 350 energy-elemental damage 0BP
   Way of Focus: 600 healing cures all physical status ailments 1BP
   Mark of Awakening: 13 raises every stat of the user; user cannot be healed while Mark of Awakening is in effect.

Note: Step over, Cecil, Galahad epitomizes the paladin.  Roughly doubling the durability of his cast (no mean feat, since they make such a tight average), blocking physicals with great regularity, and capable of full healing from now until the end of time, Galahad fears nothing but such despicably underhanded means as debilitating status effects and instant death.  He also has awesome voice acting.

[size=16]Guella Ha[/size]

"Surely there's more to your existence than fighting."

HP: 570
LP: 16
BP: 10/35 +4

STR: 55
VIT: 55
DEX: 30
AGI: 50
INT: 40
WIL: 40
COM: 45
CHA: 45

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Geckling Knight
Skills: 2-Handed Axe, Lance, Martial Arts
Class Ability: Counters attacks at 1.5x the normal rate

2-Handed Axe:
   Smash: 650 0BP
   Maim: 600 lowers AGI 2BP
   Spinning Strike: 950 3BP
   Switch Back: 1050 8BP (Surge: Flashback: 1300; ~25% crit rate)
   Grand Slam: 900 MT and an additional 1600 MT at the end of the turn; misses flying enemies 9BP
   Four Seasons: 1750 6BP
   Upper Smash: 2300 7BP

Lance:
   Double Stab: 400 (Reverse: Triple Stab 850) 0BP
   Drill Stab: 800 1BP
   Split Cranium: 300 lowers INT 4BP
   Twin Dragon: 1300 4BP
   Ultra Splitter: 1400 7BP
   Acupuncture: 2100 10BP
   Stardust: 1200 (Reverse: Swooping Dragon: 2800) 13BP

Martial Arts:
   One Two Three: 600 1BP
   Square Throw: 350 lowers STR 2BP
   Drunken Strike: 800 2BP
   Rocket Spear: 850 3BP
   Suplex: 900 30% stun chance 4BP
   Thunder Kick: 1100 lightning-elemental 5BP
   Shimmer Strike: 1000 lowers INT 6BP
   Jackhammer: 1200 30% stun chance 6BP
   Silent Assassin: 1100 30% ID chance (or so) 8BP
   Triple Dragon: 1600 11BP/.5LP
   Raksha: 2200 30% ID chance (or so) 10BP/1LP
   Nine Marks: 1800 15BP/.5LP
   Second Wind: 500 healing, adds regenerate (about 10% healing at the end of every round) 5BP (Reverse: Focus Palm: MT drain attack, 400 damage and 200 healing per enemy)

Notes: Guella Ha is held back by his terrible BP, but he admirably makes up for it with high HP, passable ID, close to full healing, and a counter rate (and fun trick with Second Wind) better than Barbara's.

[size=16]Diana[/size]

"Albert when I find you, you're gonna be SO grounded!"

HP: 510
LP: 16
BP: 16/40 +4

STR: 50
VIT: 45
DEX: 50
AGI: 55
INT: 20
WIL: 45
COM: 50
CHA: 50

PDEF: 109
MDEF: 94

Class: Rosalian Lancer
Skills: Short Sword, Pole Arm, Bow, Shield, Bewitchery
Class Ability: Goes faster when attacking in Trick mode...theoretically.

Short Sword:
   Impact Slash: 700 0BP
   Double Slash: 950 1BP
   Resonance Edge: 1300 2BP
   Mega Thrust: 1600 5BP
   Triple Star: 1650 9BP
   Kaleidoscope: 2150 13BP

Pole Arm:
   Bending Beat: 600 0BP
   Twin Dragon: 1300 4BP
   Split Cranium: 250 lowers INT 4BP
   Triumvirate: 1650 (Surge: Surging Triumvirate: 1900 Reverse: Glorious Triumvirate: 2100 crit rate ~35%) 11BP

Bow:
   Splash Shot: 400 0BP
   Triple Shot: 900 3BP
   Id Break: 650 lowers INT 4BP
   Plasma Shot: 1150 electric-elemental 5BP
   Zapper: 2000 energy-elemental 6BP
   Shadow Shot: 1300 energy-elemental inflicts ID with about 10% accuracy 9BP
   Phoenix Arrow: 1000, drains 700 HP 7BP

Bewitchery:
   Way of Defense: raises VIT 0BP
   Way of Spirit: raises WIL 0BP
   Way of Strength: raises STR 0BP
   Wave of Life: 350 energy-elemental damage 0BP
   Way of Focus: 600 healing cures all physical status ailments 1BP
   Mark of Awakening: 13 raises every stat of the user; user cannot be healed while Mark of Awakening is in effect.


Notes: I have not noticed Diana's supposed extra speed at all, though she is naturally one of the fastest PCs with her high AGI.  Diana has two choices: go with short sword, taking advantage of her shield skill, or switch between pole arm and bow, eschewing blocking for better damage and a drain attack.  Either way, with Way of Focus backing her up with bargain-basement full healing, she is a force to be reckoned with (on paper, at least).

Elementals:

Using the Summon Elemental spell, Aerology, Terrology, Hydrology, and Pyrology users can replace themselves with, respectively, an Air, Earth, Water, or Fire elemental.  This elemental remains in play until killed, whereupon the caster returns to play exactly as they left it.

(Air/Earth/Water/Fire) Elemental

HP: 333
LP: 1
BP: 4/20 +4

STR: 25
VIT: 25
DEX: 25
AGI: 25
INT: 25
WIL: 25
COM: 25
CHA: 25

Elementals can use all magic of the school they were summoned from at the same cost as their caster.  They cannot physically attack, but can defend.  They immune all statuses, ID, and their own school of magic.  They cannot be healed.  Their damage is absolute crap, usually about 250 from standard attack spells, 450 from Snowstorm, Bird of Flame and the like.  They take damage like little girls (no, not Myria, smartass) at about double the average rate.

Averages (rounded to the nearest whole number):

HP: 538
VIT: 50
AGI: 51
WIL: 43

Speed:

There are a number of factors that contribute to speed to a lesser or greater extent:

Technique Speed=Weapon Speed>Pirate Class Bonus>Agility>Weapon Mode>Weight

There is also a large random factor.  One might call it PS4esque.

Not counting the weapon bonus and move speed, speed looks like this:

Hawke > Jamil = Diana > Most of the cast > Aisha

Depending on a PC's row position, they get a speed bonus when they attack using certain weapons.  Assuming optimal row positions, the bonuses are as follows:

+40%
Foil, Short Sword, Club
+30%
Long Sword, Scimitar, Pole Arm, Lance, Bow, Martial Arts, Katana
+20%
Great Sword, Hand Axe, 2-H Sword, 2-H Axe, Staff

Magic gets no speed bonus.

Take this with a grain of salt.  Foils are certainly faster than Great Swords, but the difference isn't as pronounced as these numbers claim.

Here is my sense of overall speed, not counting technique speed (which brings a lot of magic up in speed in practice, especially against typically-slow high damage moves).  Character's best damage (based on a 3-turn average) setups are listed in italics.

Tier 1:
Hawke(Foil)

Tier 2:
Jamil(Foil)
Hawke(Hand Axe)

Diana(Short Sword)

Tier 3:
Albert(Foil)
Galahad(Club)
Diana(Pole Arm/Bow)

Tier 4:
Albert(Long Sword)
Gray(Long Sword/Katana)
Claudia(Bow)
Barbara(Martial Arts/Long Sword)
Galahad(Long Sword/Lance)

Guella Ha(Martial Arts/Lance)
Hawke(Hydrology)

Tier 5:
Gray(2-H Sword)
Sif(Hand Axe/2-H Sword)
Myriam(Staff)
Guella Ha(2-H Axe)

Diana(Bewitchery)

Tier 6:
Albert(Cosmology)
Aisha(Hand Axe)
Barbara(Demonology)
Galahad(Bewitchery)
Myriam(Pyrology)
Claudia(Terrology)

Tier 7:
Aisha(Terrology)

Damage:

3-turn Damage Average: 5608

Albert: Still Blade x3 6000
Aisha: Reverse Delta, Flyby, Reverse Delta 3750
Gray: Upper Smash x3 8400
Claudia: Zapper x3 6300
Jamil: Southern Cross x3 5400
Sif: Upper Smash x3 6300
Hawke: Reverse Delta, Reverse Delta, Flyby 5300
Barbara: Still Blade x3 5700
Myriam: Bird of Flame x3 3300
Galahad: Still Blade, Still Blade, Mega Thrust 5300
Guella Ha: Upper Smash, Upper Smash, Spinning Strike 5550
Diana: Zapper x3 6000

1st Turn Damage average: 2000

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Bosses:

Note: Avi, Pyrix, Strom, and Adyllis were tested at ER15 using endgame equips.  Avi, Pyrix, and Adyllis can be fought at any point in the game, and Strom can be fought from ER10-ER22.  At this ER you have average HP in the high 300s.  Average damage against them would be about 800 times 5 PCs.

[size=16]Strom[/size]

"I hope you like fetch quests."

HP: 12,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Average
MDef: Very Good
Immune to Hydrology
Highly resistant to Fire element
Resistant to Energy element
Moderately resistant to Blunt attacks
Weak to Electric element

Moves:
   Tidal Smash: 150
   Solid Formation: 150
   Aqua Smash: 80 25% chance of stunning.
   Watery Descent: 130 MT Cold-elemental
   Liquid Cannon: 150 25% chance of stunning, Hydrology
   Light Wave: permanently increases Strom's number of actions per turn by 1.  Stackable.

Notes:  He uses Light Wave on turn 3 and again every 4 or 5 turns.  It doesn't save him from being the scrubbiest of the four elemental lords ingame.  At least he's marginally cooler than Cagnazzo.

[size=16]Avi[/size]

“You climbed all this way for that?  Fool!”

HP: 12,000
Speed: Very Fast, on par with Hawke
Defense: Low
MDef: Low
Resistant to Cold element
Moderately weak to Electric element
Immune to Terrology and Aerology
Immune to attacks that miss flyers.

Moves:
   Beak: 60 inflicts Darkness
   Wing Snap: 120
   Sonic Wave: 120 sonic, lowers INT
   Shriek: MT, inflicts phobia at about 80% accuracy (Phobia: WIL-based status ailment; target has 50% chance of not taking any action on their turn)
   Force of Nature: 150 energy-elemental
   Liver Peck: 200
   Petrifying Beak: 60 inflicts Petrification at about 40% accuracy

Notes: Characters with low DEX like Guella Ha will be lucky ever to hit Avi.  Out of all the bosses in the game, only Saruin and Shirach come even close to being as fast/evasive as he is. 

[size=16]Adyllis[/size]

“What brings you to the depths of Mardias, human?”

HP: 12,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Good
MDef: Good
Immune to Terrology
Highly resistant to Fire, Cold, and Electric elements
Moderately resistant to Blunt attacks
Immune to attacks that miss flyers (for some reason)

Moves:
   Triple Breath: 220 MT  Fire, Cold, and Electric-elemental.
   Bite: 120
   Sonic Thrust: 120 hits front row

Adyllis Head x 4

HP: 8,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Average
MDef: Average
Immune to Terrology

Moves:
   Breath (electric): 60 dmg.  can cause poison (poison is about 50 dmg at the end of every round).
   Breath (cold): 60 dmg.  can reduce int. (about 50% accuracy)
   Breath (fire): 60 dmg.  can reduce vit. (about 50% accuracy)

Notes: Boring on paper, decent fight ingame.  At least she looks cool.

[size=16]Pyrix[/size]

“So you are incredibly stupid after all.  I suppose you’ll enjoy this rain of fire.”

HP: 12,000
Speed: Above Average
Defense: Average
MDef: Average (before resistances)
Immune to Pyrology
Highly resistant to Fire element
Resistant to Cold, Electric, and Energy elements
Resistant to Piercing and Projectiles

Moves:
Fracturing Blast: 300
Pyro Blast: 250 AoE energy-elemental, lowers DEF
Tail Whip: 150 25% chance of paralysis per hit.  (up to 50% accuracy if you fight him earlier; down to 10% if you fight him later)
Hellfire: 160 fire-elemental, Pyrology
Infernal Chariot: 250 AoE fire-elemental

Auto Self-Immolation: Works exactly the same way as the PC version of Self-Immolation does, but is automatically restored at the beginning of every round.

Notes: Every bit as much a bastard ingame as he seems.  Auto Self-Immolation alone makes him a spoiler for those relying on physicals, fire, or cold magic, and on top of that he has great damage.


Death, Shirach, and Saruin were tested against PCs as they are listed.

[size=16]Death[/size]

“You dare challenge a god?  Your conceit will be your undoing!”

HP: 35,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Good
MDef: Good
Resistant to Fire, Cold, Electric, and Energy elements
Highly resistant to Piercing and Projectiles

Moves:
Soul Harvest: 320 dmg
Flash of Death: 350 dmg, sometimes inflicts ID.
Open the Gate: 330 dmg, MT, Cold-elemental, does LP damage
Energy Bolt: 200 dmg, energy-elemental, Demonology
Wracking: 140 dmg, energy-elemental, 25% chance to stun, Necromncy
Withering: lowers STR, Necromancy
Whisper of Dread: inflicts Confusion, about 50% accuracy, Necromancy
Curse: inflicts Curse, about 50% accuracy, Necromancy (curse lowers the target's base stats by 25%)
Rain of Death: 180 dmg MT, Energy-elemental, Necromancy
Drain Energy: 200 dmg, energy-elemental, heals Death for that numerical amount, Necromancy
Drain Life: 350 dmg, energy-elemental, heals Death for that numerical amount, Necromancy
Animate Dead: Fully heals a dead PC.  They attack the party.  Permanent (until they die.)

Notes: Not too complicated.  Tanky as hell, especially to magic.  Likes using big-damage moves.  Common subject of emo poetry.  Is probably embarassed to barely be able to inflict instant death.  Ingame Animate Dead is his real killer.  Ironic, that.

[size=16]Shirach[/size]

"I only date guys who beat the game at least twice."

HP: 42,000
Speed: Fast
Defense: Average
MDef: Average

Moves:
Black Book: MT Sleep, very accurate.
Hymn of the Night Wind: 280 dmg, MT, Energy-elemental, Sonic, inflicts Phobia , very accurate (Phobia: WIL-based status ailment; target has 50% chance of not taking any action on their turn)
Dark Temptation: Charms a PC, heals them for 480, and inflicts 1 LP dmg.  Sends more mixed signals than my prom date.
Water Blast: 400 dmg, cold-elemental, inflicts Poison, Hydrology
Wind Cutter: 400 dmg, deals 1 LP dmg, Aerology
Fire Illusion: 400 dmg, fire-elemental, inflicts Berserk, Illusion
Ice Illusion: 400 dmg, cold-elemental, inflicts Paralysis, Illusion
Lightning Illusion: 400 dmg, electric-elemental, inflicts Unconscious, Illusion
Wave of Life: 450 dmg, energy-elemental, Bewitchery
Abyss: ID, 75% accuracy, Sorcery
Withering: lowers STR, Necromancy
Black Ice: Creates a magical shield that blocks all types of attacks at a rate of 30%.  If a close-range physical is blocked, damage is dealt to the attacker as if he had attacked himself, and the attacker is petrified.
Dark Nebula: 200 MT dmg, Energy-elemental, breaks magical shields
Maelstrom: MT Dispel
Crimson Flare: 650 dmg, Fire-elemental, lowers INT, only usable below 50% HP
Snowstorm: 450 MT dmg, Cold-elemental, only usable below 50% HP

Notes: Romancing SaGa's resident superboss.  Almost all of her attacks add negative statuses, as if her near-1HKO damage in every element wasn't bad enough.  Magic-immunes give her trouble, but Black Ice, backed by big HP, even mitigates that weakness to some extent.

[size=16]Saruin[/size]

"You think you can defeat a god?  Hahaha, you amuse me.  Well all right, I'll humor you, and myself, just this once."

Form 1:
HP: 12,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Good
MDef: Good

Moves:
Empty Glimmer: 250 dmg, breaks magical shields (magic shields don't activate, and are dispelled, to be specific.  Note that Revive still activates if a PC takes fatal damage from the attack)
Great Empty Glimmer: 220 MT dmg, breaks magical shields.
Obsidean Slash: 450 dmg
Immortality: 700 dmg
Animate Dead: @_@

Form 2:
HP: 30,000
Speed: Average
Defense: Good
MDef: Good

Deus ex Machina: 1400, unblockable, ignores magic shields.
Mind’s Shadow: 150, lowers all stats by 10
Bird of Fire: 400 dmg, fire-elemental, Pyrology
Petra Delta: 150 dmg energy-elemental, sometimes petrifies, Terrology
Dark Nebula: 250 energy-elemental, Sorcery
Abyss: ID, about 40%, Sorcery
Pain: 150 on average, stuns 90%, Necromancy
Crack: 200 MT earth damage, stuns 20% or so, Terrology
Animate Dead: cast on a dead character, revives them to full.  They’re permanently charmed until they die again.  Ouch.
Rain of Blades: Damage varies depending on number of remaining pillars.  240 dmg on average (16-19 pillars is about 300 dmg, 1-4 is about 150, 0 is 0)

Notes:

Saruin becomes stronger depending on the number of Fatestones you don't get (in subsequent playthroughs you are also able to offer them to him for a greater challenge).  There are 10 fatestones, 9 of which it is possible to get in the first playthrough.  Saruin here is taken as if 3 fatestones had been missed.  This is a happy medium between the minimum you can miss, 1, and the cap on his difficulty in the first playthrough, 5.  At 4 or so he gets some magical damage in Form 1.  Obsidean Slash replaces Sword of Saruin, a weaker move, at 3, not that he cares.  At 6, he starts getting more than one action a turn; at 10 he quadra-acts.

Saruin's 2nd form has a field effect that gives everything damage reduction.  Saruin's attacks, the PC's attacks, and all healing is reduced (this does not include percent-based effects such as regen, poison, or presumably gravity).  It works like so: at the beginning of the fight, there are 19 pillars.  Every time anyone including Saruin successfully attacks or uses an ability on an opponent, 1 pillar disappears.  Each pillar represents 3.33% damage reduction, totaling 63.33% at full pillars.  Every 4 turns, Saruin uses Rain of Blades, an attack that deals damage based on the number of remaining pillars (if you are fighting him at 0 fatestones he uses it less frequently).  This move also restores the number of pillars to 19.  If there are no pillars left (ha ha) he uses the move but it does no damage.  Damage is listed with no reduction, which is something you're unlikely to be seeing much of ingame.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

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Re: Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 11:20:30 PM »
For the record, the PCs who have not been listed are:

PCs that are in starting parties but have no starting classes or unique abilities:

Dowd
Herman

PCs who have starting classes but cannot be recruited without meeting certain conditions:

Gian
Freilei
Captain Silver
Dragon Knight
Neidhart
Darque (2nd playthrough at earliest? yuck.)

PCs who have preconditions and are scrubs with no unique classes:

Patrick
Farah
Raphael

Temps:

Brau
Sylvan
Theodore
Red Mage (RedMageAll hype is go?)

PCs who are a pain in the ass because they leave your party every time you enter a pub or certain towns and make you listen to their damn music before rejoining and have damn annoying voice actors and also are not likely to even be able to be in your final party:

The Minstrel

I have stats for The Minstrel, Freilei, Neidhart, Darque, and Dragon Knight, and can get damages for them. I'm reluctant to expand the list of PCs to include any of them without also including Gian, Captain Silver, Dowd, and Herman, though.

As for Brau and Sylvan comparing, it's tough to say. If you level them to endgame stats, they do low but passable damage, but their durability is a good sight less than half of the averaqe since they can't wear armor other than accessories. Of course, if you're industrious it's possible to have endgame armor and techs on Claudia by the time they leave.

My current to do list is as follows:
- Retest Schirach for Crimson Flare damage (which I could easily be way off on, because it's a multihit move I don't see much of)
- Replace Diana's art, and see about getting better boss art.
- Get more specific PC damages against Saruin/Death and clarify boss durability (30,000 HP is *not* barely over PCHP, despite what the topic currently implies.)
- Note move speed on particularly fast and slow moves, hopefully clarifying that magic use doesn't make characters so slow
- Clarify speed average somehow, add defense averages, and clarify damage averages
- Add Strife/Scorn/Spite, Ewei, Butcher, and Tuman.
- Update numbers on Jamil and Galahad, both of whom are slightly underleveled.
- Add Dowd, Herman, and The Minstrel to the topic
- Add something for temps
- Consider adding PCs with quest requirements to the topic.
Gian - Probably. figures in Claudia and Gray's stories, recruitable by ER5
Freilei - Maybe. Anyone looking to get all 10 fatestones will have a chance to recruit her, for all that she's total FAQ bait, and difficult to obtain earlier to ER22 (not to mention that her stats will look a lot different if you can somehow get her earlier than that)
Captain Silver - Probably not. Easy to encounter once, but total, total FAQ bait to recruit, and recruitment, unlike Freilei, is not tied to getting a fatestone and is permanently missable.
Dragon Knight - Probably. Moderately FAQ bait, but not as bad as the others by any means. Also, has unique, interesting combat abilities. No art to my knowledge, though.
Neidhart - Maybe. Recruitment is intuitive if playing as Albert, obscure otherwise. Missable, but with a wide window of opportunity.
Raphael - Maybe. Plot-important PC, relatively easy to recruit, but in the same barely-passable scrub category as Herman and Dowd.
Darque - No. Obscure PC you'd be lucky to have stumbled upon the prerequisites for by your second playthrough, with an interesting but headache-inducing form issue similar to Tantra, but fundamentally more vexing.
Farah - No. Starts with no class, no equips, and no skills.
Patrick - No art, I think, so no. Barely passible scrub, anyway.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

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